Dana and I met through a mutual friend -- and I have had the privilege of eating Dana's cuisine in both private and public settings (e.g., an unnamed friend's wedding and. . . Blackbird). I will never forget what it felt like when my partner and I were seated at Blackbird and, remembering a dietary restriction of my partners', a special dessert arrived.
And, we have dined alongside one another in several venues. I learn every time -- and I have fun.
Dana is a James Beard nominated pastry chef, whose work has been recognized both in the US and beyond, and who has worked in settings as diverse as WD 50, Alinea, and various parts of the Publican arena, including Blackbird. She is known for her blog, ThePastryDepartment.com -- and has a lovely newish book entitled Hello, My Name is Ice Cream.
I am thrilled that she agreed to appear on the blog -- and hope you will be as thrilled as I am.
Bibliochef: You have done so much in your career as a chef, in Denmark and the US, as a pastry chef and a blogger, as a purveyor of ice cream and a chef at top restaurants as diverse as Alinea and WD 50, Blackbird and . . . I wonder if you have a favorite moment or experience that you would share?
Dana: I don't know, favorites are too hard for me, I feel guilty for all the other wonderful things I'm excluding. I've had a lot of successes, achievements, and met so many respected people in my time cooking. But I suppose the time I reflect on as being one of my favorites was my time at Kadeau, a summer restaurant on the island of Bornholm. My pastry kitchen windows looked out onto the baltic sea, and we collected a lot of the food from the surrounding region, either through foraging, or connecting with farmers and makers. My days off were so tranquil, I think I hiked every inch of the island, wether it was on a trail to an old castle, or just roaming the beaches. And they had one of my favorite ice cream shops and licorice makers on the island. It was heaven, pure heaven. And it was too good to last, they closed up shop for the season, and I had to return to the states to find a job. Alas, I never made it back. Although I dream of it every day. I think I left a part of me behind there, hoping it would pull me back one day.
Bibliochef: The blog you established at ThePastryDepartment.com originally featured your voice as a way into the pastry department for those unfamiliar with it -- and now includes the voices of a variety of pastry chefs. If you could invite a guest blog from any additional person – living or dead, real or fictional – who might that be? Why?
Dana: I would invite Agnes B Marshall. She was a pioneer in ice cream in England, wrote some of the first recipes for ice cream in published cookbooks, and held patents for improvements in ice cream makers. This was all in the Victorian era long before refrigeration, and all the ice was being imported from nordic countries in the summers. I would love for her to share her discoveries with us, and I'd love to see what she could do with our modern equipment.
Bibliochef: I read recently that your grandmother was a home economics teacher. I have to admit home economics was not my favorite high school subject (I blame that on the sewing portion). Did you take home economics? Do you see it as similar to today’s push to have school kids and others learn about food –like Alice Waters’ school initiative, for example?
Dana: Yes my grandma Eva taught home economics, and my grandma Virginia taught mathematics. I couldn't cook without math, so they have both influenced me. I loved home economics, and I think we could benefit from their presence in our school curriculum. When I went to school it was mandatory for all genders, as was shop. We gained basic knowledge of tools in the kitchen and in the workshop, and because of that, I have a knowledge base for keeping a home. We seem to have eliminated any kind of practical life skills from our education in favor of testable curriculum. I would love to see our children gain practical knowledge, including basic cooking skills, food education, and nutrition. Without it, we are released into our adult lives, defenseless against the corporate push of processed foods as the mainstay of our diets, which I see as the major contributor to the American health crisis.
Bibliochef: I suspect you get asked often about the paucity of women chefs – and I also read your recent essay (found on Dana's blog) on the current rash of sexual harassment allegations in various industries, including restaurants and other parts of the food and hospitality industry. The essay itself might be your answer to this – but I have to ask: If you were to give advice to up and coming female chefs – what might that advice be? Are their good resources to know about?
Dana: I would say, my advice extends to all genders. If we want an even playing field, we need to act as one. Sexually charged, sexist jokes hurt everyone, not just the target. For everyone, If you hear something try responding with "thats not ok" instead of laughing. Don't be afraid to use your voice, even if you don't think anyone is listening, or you don't see an immediate result. Just like sexism in the kitchen is infectious in ways people don't immediately see, so is your voice of resistance. If anything, it leaves you knowing you spoke up for yourself and for me, that alone is enough to boost my self esteem in ways that lift me through out my day. And you never know who else is listening, and how that message will carry on in them.
Then, remember, there is no kitchen that deserves to be elevated by your silence. No amount of stars, no ranking on the best lists. if they exist at the top while housing a culture of sexism, mysoginy, racism, bullying, or homophobia, they didn't get there fairly. They exploited a system and were lifted falsely. It doesn't matter how talented the chef is. Are they actually that much more talented? Or did they isolate, exploit, and step all over the other less aggressive talent around them? Don't waste your time. Find someone better. Lift someone else with your hard work talent who is going to protect you and lift you in return.
And, don't be afraid to call people out. If you watch truly wonderful people make bad choices, you'll see them shift themselves when confronted with their misdeeds. They take it seriously, and take action to improve themselves. But they would never have the opportunity to grow if they weren't called out. The best of us still make bad choices. But we need to own them, and sometimes we need other people's help in seeing the error of our ways. We need those around us to help us see ourselves through their eyes. By saying "I don't like that. It makes me feel ______" We can amend our behavior. Those who lash out and victim blame when confronted with misdeeds, they may never grow up, so lets get out of their way and work with people who take the wellbeing of those around them seriously.
Bibliochef: Thanks so much. I think much of what you have said will resonate -- it certainly does for me -- regardless of the "industry." Are there other steps to take to build the pipeline for more women chefs?
Dana: I don't know. I suppose men in the kitchen need to understand that they have to make space for women. They have been given more clout, and thrived in an environment that subtly, and not so subtly, made it too hard for women to succeed. It's hard to see when you're in the thick of it, struggling and working hard, that you're being lifted because someone else is being held down. All you can see is your own difficulty. I have seen women forge their way to the top, nothing was going to stop them. but I have seen more men lifted to the top without half as much effort, because their buddy was opening something and needed a second sous chef, or the chef "saw a bit of himself in them", which happens only happens when you share a gender. Or they became the sous chef because after 5 years that super talented girl couldn't take the unwanted touching and the space she left open was give to them. Ask this of men, you climbed to the top, was the space you filled only open to you because a women wasn't given the chance to be there? Or were you chosen impartially from a group of candidates that included women? If you never saw the pool of candidates, can you ever be sure what you have was earned fairly?
I would encourage women to start a girls' club, lifting other women intentionally, until the playing field equals out. If the men aren't making space for us, we can make space for each other. We can continue to create opportunity until the culture shifts and equal opportunity exists without making space. And for petes sake, lets stop laughing with the guys, stop perpetuating the toxic joke culture that only leaves us behind.
Biblochef: And, now to a totally different topic: ice cream! Can you tell us your first memory about ice cream – and if it is connected at all to your cookbook, Hello, My Name is Ice Cream (for a few remarks from me on the book, click here) and your ice cream line? (By the way, how did I miss you have an ice cream line? Or is there one?)
Dana: You didn't miss my ice cream line, I don't have one. For a while I packed some pints for sale in chicago but I am not going to do that again until I can comply with the USDA standards for production. As for my first memory, I don't really know, it's just always been there in my life. Which is part of why I love ice cream so much- we can't even remember our introduction, it's always been with us. I have some distinct early memories, like ice cream socials at elementary school, where they would open up a square carton and slice you off a slab and serve it on a paper plate. Or demanding that my cake and ice cream be on separate dishes at my grandmas house. I remember always wanting chocolate ice cream, and watching my friend Colleen's dad pack ice and salt into an ice cream maker for home made strawberry ice cream. Mostly, I remember the popsicle truck and popsicles. maybe we were just a popsicle family instead. We always had a bag of twin pops in the freezer, but when the popsicle truck came around I could get a fudgesicle, or the chocolate and banana popsicle.
Bibliochef: If you were recommending one essential gadget for everyone to have in their kitchen, what would it be?
Dana: An ice cream maker!!!!!
Bibliochef:Ok, I should have guessed that! I know you have been in and out of the Chicago food scene – that you are from Seattle and have been a chef or staged elsewhere, including Denmark as you noted earlier. Given that Chicago has been increasingly recognized as a foodie city, what changes have you seen in the city food scene in recent years?
Dana: I've seen chefs parting ways with traditional fine dining and adding their creativity and high standards to fast casual restaurants, delivery services, and more economical concepts. I think the traditional lifestyle of a chef has driven some of our greatest talents from the kitchen, and they have sought other ways to continue feeding people and practicing their craft.
Bibliochef: If you were doing a food tour for someone whose budget was unknown to you – or just making suggestions of must see/do food related detinations in the city, what would you recommend?
Dana: I would suggest breakfast and pastries at Spilt Milk or bang bang, lunch at avec and lula, dinner at quiote and else, treats at spinning J and jenis splendid ice cream. And of course, a special trip to the publican with a group to order every dessert on the menu.
Bibliochef: Wowzers -- how did I miss some of those? Next time I am in the city! And, now for a few more questions, ones that I ask everyone who is “interviewed” on Cooking with Ideas. What’s the absolutely best meal you have ever had? What made it the best meal?
Dana: One of the first cooks I worked with, Fernando, told me the number one meal of your life is the meal that is in front of you. It taught me respect for the food we have in front of us, and to remember how fortunate we are to have it. Instead of comparing meals and diminishing what we are eating, just to focus on what is in front of you and enjoy it for what it is. I stand by that, because after we consume a meal, it no longer exists, and all we have are memories of it. I'd like to keep my memories fond, and my heart open to enjoying what ever I am fortunate enough to be eating next.
Bibliochef: I love that point of view. Thanks! So: What music, films, books related to food would you recommend? Why?
Dana: Hmmm..... I really loved the book Salt, it told about the history of the world through the lens of where we sourced salt. We can't live without consuming this mineral, and every civilization centered around accessing it. We really take it for granted in this day and age. I loved Ratatouille too.
Bibliochef: What do you eat for comfort food?
Dana: I eat potato chips for comfort. And, ice cream.
Bibliochef: I usually ask if people have a favorite restaurant in the Finger Lakes region, so let me know if you do! Otherwise, how about a favorite in Chicago or elsewhere?
Dana: Sad to say I've never been to the Finger Lakes, but my current favorite is cellar door provisions. i just love what they do, it's so well attended to, delicious, and it's a space I feel very comfortable dining alone in as a woman.
Bibliochef: What am I not asking that I should? What question have you never been asked that you have always wanted to be asked? What's your answer?
Dana: Oh shoot I don't know! How about "If I had an extra puppy, would you want it?" and the answer is YES!
Bibliochef: Wowzers again! I do not, alas, have an extra puppy but if I ever do. . . . In any case, thanks so much for the "conversation!" As always, you have pushed me along to think and experience new things. And, I have to say": come visit the Finger Lakes! You can stay with us!
For Dana's blog, click here. For others with Dana, including Saveur that calls her the new queen of ice cream, try here or, better, head on over to her digs in Chicago at publican and. . . eat!!!