Cooking With Ideas

Kelby Russell: On Wine and More, An Interview

Kelby Russell’s name is familiar to many in the Finger Lakes, both because it graces some delightful rose wines from Red Newt – and because he is a presence in many ways supporting various not for profits in our area, including the Smith Opera House, the Eastman Rochester Chorus, and the National Women’s Hall of Fame. A graduate of Harvard University, Kelby was born and raised in our region and lives in Geneva. He is a remarkable cook, a good friend, and a smart guy whose occasional obsession with weather surprises even his friends. I am grateful he agreed to do this interview – I hope you will enjoy  it – and learn as much from it as I have. (If, after you read this, you want more bio on Kelby, try here.)

BIbliochef: So, when I think of you, I think wine, but I also think food. And yet, I do not quite know how you got to be interested in both (or either!) – and to be a professional in the wine industry. Can you describe your path to winemaking and what inspired you to take this path? 

Kelby: Believe it or not, this is always a tricky question for me to answer.  Particularly in the wine industry, we have grown accustomed to stories involving epiphanic moments: our protagonist suddenly discovers the 'magic' of wine and decides to make it their calling, etc..  This is especially true for the US wine industry, where the drinking age is 21 and those that ignore that likely aren't doing so because they want wine with their dinner as a 16 year old.  Unlike classic wine regions in Europe, where wine and food together are commonplace and a given, it is still relatively rare here for someone to graduate high school and immediately know they either want to study, or begin a career in, wine.  So second-career professionals, by definition often have had some breakthrough moment.

So the truth is that, short of making one up, I have no flash story that led me to wine.  I could talk about the fact that my favorite activity in pre-school was to be a pretend chef, or that my favorite TV station from third grade onward was the Food Network.  It is all true, but those stories speak more to someone who was generally interested in food and curious about it - two traits which are prerequisites for just about any successful career.

When I went to college, I think that was just part of me and kept growing as I learned more about the world and myself.  I started drinking beer and quickly ended up in the microbrew world.  I started to write food guides for the places around Boston I thought were particularly great.  When an opportunity came up to apply for a travel scholarship to Italy, my application focused on learning about Italy via its food: it was what interested me, and I assumed everyone else would apply to study Roman history or art or the church.  So I zigged when everyone else zagged, won the scholarship, and ended up working at a winery - Castello di Potentino - in Southeast Tuscany.   I loved it - the work, the pace of life, the personalities in wine (the owner of the castle, Charlotte Horton, is a force of nature and that was before I discovered she was the granddaughter of Graham Greene) - it was my first exposure to wine in a serious way and it stayed with me.

After that summer, when I went back to my senior year, the thought of how 'right' the wine world felt never left me.  After graduating I decided to move back home to the Finger Lakes and give the winemaking 'thing' a shot, and that's what I'm still doing. 

BIbliochef: I love the notion of zigging rather than zagging! As I have talked with people in the wine industry (and the food industry) I have been curious about how one’s professional life relates to the food and wine in one’s daily life. Is it like being a professional reader (which is what I think of as an academic’s job for those of the sort I am) and not knowing what the limits of professional reading is --  so all reading is simultaneously personal and professional?  

Kelby: There is certainly a danger in the wine world of exactly what you are describing; what boundaries should exist between professional wine analysis and personal wine appreciation?  I think every winemaker struggles with this and finds their own answer.  For me, I feel like I have a switch that can be flipped on or off.  At work or in tasting environments, I am focused on the nature of the wine, how it was made, what its inherent characteristics are, what it would accompany food-wise, etc.  At home or with a meal, however, I turn off the analytical approach (excepting the most egregious flaws) and instead focus on the spirit of the wine and its enjoyment.   

For me, I think that being a 'creator' is what allows and requires me to be able to step back.  Ultimately, enjoyment is what wine is about.  I don't want to be alienated - or alienate myself - from that.  There is nothing more cynical or less enjoyable than abstract winemaking.   

Meanwhile, I think those in the wine industry who approach wine as critics - whether writers or beverage directors/sommeliers - probably have a much harder time stepping back.  In those positions, you are always "on" and analyzing wine, the boundary between professional and personal is almost non-existent.  This is not a problem, just an observation, and I think a fundamental and necessary distinction between creator and critic in any pursuit.

The problem I am intrigued by, however, is Sommelier burnout.  The above distinctions have worked for a long time, but in the social media age the act of critic/beverage director has suddenly become a form of around-the-clock performance art.  And as social performance lends itself to, slowly it turns into a competition.  Wine Twitter and Instagram feel like one long #humblebrag on one hand, keeping up with the Jones's on the other.  It is a game which no one ultimately benefits from.

(The other piece of Beverage Director burnout that I muse on is distinctly more Marxist, in regards to how serving the elite in global cities results in admiration and emulation of their attitudes and what they value.  There is a reason that top level sommeliers tend to be young, male, and work insane hours for a few years until they burnout; let's not pretend it is inherent to the job.  If you took the veneer of wine away from the job title, the job structure would be identical to power lawyers, investors, or tech start-ups.  What is being rewarded and valued?  I daresay it is not the wine; the product is incidental to the power exchange.) 

Bibliochef: I totally see what you mean about he relation of all this to power exchanges; certainly the sumptuary laws of history were about managing food and drink (and clothing) around power! And now, for something a tad less intellectual, though like you everything is a blend for me! Would you be willing to describe the first meal you can remember that included wine – and what it meant to you (or does not mean to you)?  

Kelby: The memory that will forever stay with me is of my first time having wine (and first time having any sort of alcoholic beverage), which was at the start of my freshman year at college.  I know, I was a late bloomer.  [Bibliochef; me too!] 

Upon arriving on campus, the first choice of real consequence for me was to sort out which extracurricular activities I would pursue.  Music had always been a huge part of my life, between alto saxophone and singing, so I decided to try out for the Harvard Glee Club.  [N.B. A 60 voice, all male chorus that specializes in classical works and Renaissance polyphony; not to be confused with the TV show.]  The tryouts were rigorous and nerve-wracking, but after a couple of weeks I heard a knock on my dorm door one Sunday evening and opened it to find the returning 45 members of the Glee Club in white ties and tailcoats, bursting into a song of welcome.  I tagged along with them as they went on to welcome the other new members, until we were all gathered and eventually led to the beautiful old chapel that serves as a rehearsal space of the Glee Club. We entered the room in the dark and were given glasses of sparkling wine, only to discover we were surrounded by the returning Glee Club once again, singing Palestrina's motet "Sicut Cervus."  

It is an idyllic story for ones first taste of wine, but there is no use in pretending otherwise.  Lest it seem to high-brow, following that welcome, the entire lot of us went down to a Chinese-American restaurant for a late night dinner of all the classics that now would give me indigestion.  And I can only assume the sparkling wine was a brand along the lines of Andre.

I had forgot about this story for quite some time, but it is one of the most memorable moments of my young life.  And I feel like its impact was fundamental on me, yet has been easy to glide over for some time.  When I think about how I consider wine and my job now, so much of it can be traced back to that magical evening.  The idea that wine can raise a moment to the spectacular, that it can be an expression of art as well as a complement to it, and that it should also be there equally for the less-serious or fun times.  It is how I still think about wine and the wines I want to make for everyone.  Hopefully, I will live up to those aspirations.

Bibliochef:  I think of you as a winemaker – as an oenologist rather than a viticulture person. Is that right? What do you see as the relation of growing grapes to making wine? 

Kelby: Certainly my title is winemaker, and that is chiefly how I viewed my own role when I was starting and finding my feet at Red Newt.  I think every winemaker has their own answer to where they fall along this spectrum, and the wine world in general has coded-in assumptions about what the correct and incorrect way to go about it is.  For me?  As I've matured as a winemaker I find myself more and more spending time in the vineyard. 

Largely this is modeled upon what I saw during the crucial harvest I spent at Yalumba, in the Barossa Valley of South Australia.  The winemaking team there was remarkably talented and invested in teaching me what they looked for and why.  To my surprise, during harvest that usually meant they were out in vineyards checking on the grapes, making adjustments, scheduling what should be picked when.  They were rarely at the production facility, the handling of the fruit in the winery was taken care of by a great cellar team instead.  

Now I find myself behaving somewhat similarly; I have an amazing team at Red Newt that I am proud of having helped assemble and train.  And at the end of the day, they can process the fruit exactly as I want them to just as well as I could.  My greatest value is thus not to be on the crush pad, but out in the vineyard.  Looking, tasting, starting to get a feel for how the harvest is going or what type of wines each parcel might want to be.  Then, once it is dark, I'm back on the crush pad working just like normal.  It's been a big evolution for me over the past five years, having the trust to step away from the crush pad itself and into the vineyard, but I think the wines have improved markedly for it.

Bibliochef: I know you have traveled around the world in the interest of learning and making wine. Could you say a bit about why and how that affects you as a thinker and a maker? 

Kelby: In a way, I suppose all the travel to learn about making wine has been a hands-on form of Graduate School.  I was, and am, a bit proponent of the liberal arts undergraduate degree; learning how to think critically and how to philosophically place yourself in a swirling world.  The sacrifice in doing that, however, is foregoing a single-focused career path during those years.  But that is a great trade-off!  It meant that once I decided to pursue winemaking, I knew that was what I wanted to do and was more than ready to pursue it.  I was ready to travel the world and soak up different ideas about wine, winemaking, and the various techniques used to achieve those ends.  And I was grounded enough to still appreciate and learn from the winemaking ideas I didn't necessarily agree with.

That is the big picture, certainly.  On a more day-to-day scale those travels laid the foundation for the ideas I bring into winemaking every day.  How I view my role in the cellar versus vineyard (see above)?  Australia.  How I want to treat those who work on my team? Tasmania.  How to handle a production schedule that is largely built around one grape? New Zealand.  How I work with lighter-bodied red wines? All three (via Burgundy, for some of them).  How to make great Dry Rieslings with texture? Germany. How to stop worrying and learn to love enjoyable wines? Italy.  

The list could be much longer, but I think it is not unique to me.  Any winemaker with a curious mind who travels will have a similar list of influences, even if the results aren't the same.  It is the fun of being in this industry.

Bibliochef: As you know, I am with you on the importance of the liberal arts and sciences! ON the relation of local to global, or stay at home to travel: Does the travel you have spoken about and continue to do lead you to think about the Finger Lakes from a particular perspective?  

Kelby: With how rapidly the wine world is evolving, and with all our hopes for the future of the Finger Lakes, I've always been keen to see how other wine regions have come of age. Finger Lakes wines are finding their footing in the larger market, not just New York City, and with that growth will come an influx of interest in the region itself.  It is a reason that I immediately knew I wanted to live in Geneva upon returning home from college; it seemed well positioned to be the wine town or capital for the Finger Lakes and I wanted to be part of that.

As my travels continued, however, my perspective has slightly shifted.  I still feel the same way about the Finger Lakes and Geneva as places for tremendous growth, but I've realized that many local residents do not see the changes that are coming and I want to make sure we are prepared.  We are so used to this region being somewhat economically forlorn, it is hard to believe that things could change, but we need to see that coming and protect the path forward.  Those who would sell out our future for a handful of jobs that destroy the local environment - our greatest resource for winemaking and for tourism - history will not judge favorably.  Likewise for those who would rather bury their heads in the sand and say that Finger Lakes wines aren't actually that good.

Meanwhile, I've become more animated in two other fronts, after having traveled and seen successful wine regions and towns that have emerged recently.  The first is to stress to locals over and over again that the main benefit of a growing wine industry is not tourism.  It is not restaurants and hotels and various other tourist activities; although those are important and certainly will grow.  The real benefit is actually the jobs and the people that move to the region.  We are seeing an influx of talent - national and even international - that are interested in working in the Finger Lakes and perhaps settling down here to make their mark on a new wine region.  The benefits of the jobs created and the people who fill them or travel to fill them?  That is the real multiplier effect of our local wine industry.  And outside of economics, I would add that we tend to be a relatively fun group of people.

The second change I am attuned to from traveling is not as popular.  We are so eager to see economic growth in Geneva and the region at large, so excited to chase after it and celebrate it in every way, that I think we are already overlooking the fact that gentrification is not some great cure-all.  Often I hear about how much Geneva has changed for the better, how exciting the businesses are, how much safer downtown is, when what we are actually talking about is whitewashing.  Geneva is a wonderful city with many amazing benefits, and one of those is how diverse it is. My neighbors - young professionals, blue collar workers, migrant workers - are all crucial.  We need to make sure we celebrate that, not push it to the outskirts where you don't have to drive through it.  

Bibliochef: I am completely with you on the need to anticipate and plan for change; as someone who loves Geneva, I am concerned that we attend to the many people whose lives are changed and we want to stay with and in Geneva - rather than become a place that pushes others out in order to bring economic growth. I like the idea of grand-parenting in those who live here as taxes change, and finding other ways to honor local as crucial to all that we do.

So: on people. . . You can invite anyone living or dead to a meal that you cook. And you are unconstrained by budget. Who would you invite? On what might you dine? And what wine would you serve? 

Kelby: For me, it would quite simply be my maternal grandfather.  Unfortunately I don't remember him, as he passed away when I was far too young.  It is all the stranger then, that even without that connection, I seem to have taken after him in so many ways.  He loved baseball and sports, loved cooking Italian food after he befriended Italian workers while he was growing up, adored jazz.  Without any of those existing in my upbringing, I came to all 3 passions on my own over time.  I would have loved to have known him.

For the meal?  Sunday Gravy; tomato sauce with meatballs, sausages, pork, the whole nine yards.  I grew up thinking of pasta as spaghetti and meatballs, but my mother would tell stories about my grandfather's tomato sauce being an all day project that included things that seemed strange to me growing up (a pork chop?!).  I don't have his recipe, but I stumbled into my own and love to make it.  I'd like to think we'd cook it together while catching up and joking around; an easy drinking red wine out of bistro tumblers, Ella Fitzgerald on the record player.  Sometimes I wonder if he isn't with me in those moments regardless.

Bibliochef: So moving, Kelby. Thanks. You can pick 5 wines to put in your wine cellar. Neither price nor availability are concerns since this is a fantasy. What do you pick? How might you tweak this if price or availability mattered? Price is no option and availability is no concern.  

Kelby: Interesting, the "wine cellar" part is a twist that makes aging potential more important that the typical iteration of this question.  I'll do some general wines and a couple specifics, and these would generally hold up even if cost was a consideration (noted otherwise if not).  The secret of the wine world is that the 'best wines in the world' often exist for prices that are not astronomical ($50-$75 for a special bottle).  Leave the astronomical names to the astronomically wealthy, the wines are often very good, but the premium on them is no longer commensurate to their quality:

• A big, autolytic (yeasty/brioche-y), brut Champagne.  
  • I enjoy many styles of Champagne and its vinous children (if you think there aren't many styles, take this as an excuse to try more of them), but I have a particular soft spot for the broader, toastier, richer styles.  This is the type of Champagne you could serve with steak, which seems counter-intuitive until you give it a try and realize just how well a big Champagne holds up with classic "red wine" food.  It takes lots of time to make this style in general, which also means they are more expensive.
• An older Palo Cortado Sherry.
  • I'm a noted fan of sherry and, thanks to Peter Bell at Fox Run, was on that bandwagon several years before they suddenly became popular again in wine geek circles.  Palo Cortado is a relatively rare style that is both earthy/mushroomy and still saline, roughly between Amontillado and Oloroso in style.  It's rarity has led it to be fetishized in the US market and driven up the price, however.  So if cost isn't an issue...  
• Hunter Valley Semillon (i.e. Tyrrell's). 
  • A shout out to the great wine country of Australia, which has been underappreciated in the US ever since the Yellowtail wave hurt their premium image.  Semillon from the Hunter Valley is a remarkable creation; picked young and green, the resulting wines are tight and crisp when first bottled to the point of being neutral.  Ten years or more in bottle, however, and they become wines of rare finesse and beauty.  A real treat, and all it takes is time.
• Auslese Riesling from J.B. Becker in the Rheingau.
  • A producer I was able to meet four years ago who forever challenged how I think about making wine.  He is a persnickety character who lets his wines do the speaking for him, but my goodness do they have a lot to say.  Concentration and layers upon layers of flavors.  Recently the wines have started to come into the US and are quite hip - but fortunately the emphasis is on his drier Rieslings.  The minority of sweeter style Rieslings he makes, however, always leave me speechless.
• Boscarelli Vino Nobile di Montepulciano.
  • If you've ate at our house, you know that Italy may be my spiritual home despite me having no genetic connections there.  Tuscan red wines are consistently one of my favorite things to drink in the vinous world and pair with Italian cooking in a way that no other wine can.  Savory and tannic, yet with enough acid to counterbalance tomatoes or vinegar.  Old school Chianti producers are reliably the best value wines in the market, often around $15-$20 for a bottle (i.e. those that don't include international grapes such as Merlot or Cabernet Sauvignon, and instead stick with Sangiovese and a handful of other indigenous varieties).  This is a special sub-region and particular producer in that context, given that I'm not limited by funds in this question, but even saying that the wines can be had for around $30. 

Bibliochef:  Ok, I admit that I did not quite anticipate that the notion of wine cellar would shape your answer this way! Thanks. Time for me to go shopping -- and we might need a consult on how to store things. And onward: If you were recommending one essential gadget for everyone to have in their kitchen, what would it be? 

Kelby: A simple, double-hinged, waiters' corkscrew.   They are stupidly simple to use and work every time, yet there is an entire industry built around "bottle openers" that attempts to convince you that getting a cork out is some sort of magic trick.  Unless you are opening 20+ year old bottles, this kind of corkscrew is all you need and it shouldn't cost more than $10-$15 for a normal model.

Bonus, non-wine, gadget for cocktail enthusiasts out there: True Cubes ice tray.  Clear ice is a beautiful thing in cocktails or for any drink on the rocks, and this Kickstarter project from 2016 finally delivered it on a home-scale at a great price.   

Bibliochef: Again, you are going to force me to shop! I have been looking at ice cubes in new ways over the past few years. And now, though, onward to questions that I ask everyone> here's the first: What’s the absolutely best meal you have ever had? What made it the best meal?

Kelby: The next one!  That may seem like a cop-out, but anyone who has lived with me or my cooking knows how true that is.  I cook constantly and love to cook... but I rarely ever cook the same thing twice.  I'm constantly tinkering, onto the next thing, often to the frustration of those who want me to make a meal again.  I love the thrill of cooking, inventing, and creating; and I enjoy doing it anew every time.  So hopefully I never lose that passion; it's great to always feel like the next meal will be the greatest yet!

Bibliochef: You are not the first to answer this way. And, I am kind of with you on this -- or at least the ever  shifting answer I would have if I tried to answer this myself. And now: What music, films, books related to food would you recommend? Why?  

Kelby: Bill Buford's Heat is the book that inspired me to pursue my dream of traveling to Italy for food reasons and gave me the spirit to throw myself into the passion of creating something (wine in my case, as opposed to a talented butcher).  It also, regrettably, features Mario Batali as a large character throughout much of the first half.  I refuse to hide from that, however.  Buford's writing was incredibly important on my journey, but as a society we have to fully face the damage wrought by men who abuse any advantage of power they have.  We need to do much better, and part of that includes not sweeping such things under the rug as if they didn't happen.  [Bibliochef: If you do not know to what Kelby is referring, click here.] 

Heat once mattered to me as an inspiration for chasing a dream; now, my own history with it inspires me in manner that is even more important.

Bibliochef: I learned a lot from Heat as well -- and reviewed it some years ago here on Cooking with Ideas. I might have to revisit my thinking about the book while eating comfort food? What do you eat for comfort food?

Kelby:While I cook regional Italian food more often than not, my comfort food would come from Italy's largest 'region,' America.  Italian-American food is a go-to comfort food; veal parm, meatballs, thick red sauces with melted cheese, garlic bread, NY-style pizza.  How can you go wrong?!  The restaurant I may take the most joy recommending in Geneva is probably Uncle Joe's (The wings! The giblets! The Dripless Meatball Sub!), which is definitely a local secret tucked away to the north of downtown.  It's almost a second home many a late night after harvest.  

Bibliochef:  I usually ask if people have a favorite restaurant in the Finger Lakes region or Chicago,and now you have mentioned one!  So, more on this?  Otherwise, how about a favorite elsewhere?

Kelby: Easiest question of them all.  In the Finger Lakes, Dano's.  Fantastic food, made with love, made with purpose, and a restaurant that is rock solid in its consistency (a factor that often gets overlooked).  I also find the architecture and interior gorgeous.  Bonus points for the special meals (Channukah dinners, Ukranian Christmas, etc.).

In Rochester, Rocco's Osteria on Monroe Avenue.  My favorite restaurant in the country.  It reminds me of a "triple threat" in Hollywood or a "five tool" baseball player; it is rare in that it can do everything well.  Appetizers, salads, pizzas, or big ticket entrees; a great bar program led by Sly; and a small, but fascinating and ever-changing wine list.  This place was inspired by Batali's restaurants, and (thankfully) roundly laps them in execution.

Bibliochef: Well, I cannot say how pleased I am you did this interview! I have a restaurants to visit that I have not visited, and have learned a lot about many things. Here's a toast to you -- cheers! And thank you. 

 

Hello, My Name is Dana Cree

Dana and I met through a mutual friend -- and I have had the privilege of eating Dana's cuisine in both private and public settings (e.g., an unnamed friend's wedding and. . . Blackbird). I will never forget what it felt like when my partner and I were seated at Blackbird and, remembering a dietary restriction of my partners', a special dessert arrived.

And, we have dined alongside one another in several venues. I learn every time -- and I have fun. 

Dana is a James Beard nominated pastry chef, whose work has been recognized both in the US and beyond, and who has worked in settings as diverse as WD 50, Alinea, and various parts of the Publican arena, including Blackbird. She is known for her blog, ThePastryDepartment.com -- and has a lovely newish book entitled Hello, My Name is Ice Cream. 

I am thrilled that she agreed to appear on the blog -- and hope you will be as thrilled as I am. 

Bibliochef: You have done so much in your career as a chef, in Denmark and the US, as a pastry chef and a blogger, as a purveyor of ice cream and a chef at top restaurants as diverse as Alinea and WD 50, Blackbird and  .  . .  I wonder if you have a favorite moment or experience that you would share? 

Dana: I don't know, favorites are too hard for me, I feel guilty for all the other wonderful things I'm excluding. I've had a lot of successes, achievements, and met so many respected people in my time cooking. But I suppose the time I reflect on as being one of my favorites was my time at Kadeau, a summer restaurant on the island of Bornholm. My pastry kitchen windows looked out onto the baltic sea, and we collected a lot of the food from the surrounding region, either through foraging, or connecting with farmers and makers. My days off were so tranquil, I think I hiked every inch of the island, wether it was on a trail to an old castle, or just roaming the beaches. And they had one of my favorite ice cream shops and licorice makers on the island. It was heaven, pure heaven. And it was too good to last, they closed up shop for the season, and I had to return to the states to find a job. Alas, I never made it back. Although I dream of it every day. I think I left a part of me behind there, hoping it would pull me back one day. 

Bibliochef: The blog you established at ThePastryDepartment.com originally featured your voice as a way into the pastry department for those unfamiliar with it --  and now includes the voices of a variety of pastry chefs. If you could invite a guest blog from any additional person – living or dead, real or fictional  – who might that be? Why? 

Dana: I would invite Agnes B Marshall. She was a pioneer in ice cream in England, wrote some of the first recipes for ice cream in published cookbooks, and held patents for improvements in ice cream makers. This was all in the Victorian era long before refrigeration, and all the ice was being imported from nordic countries in the summers. I would love for her to share her discoveries with us, and I'd love to see what she could do with our modern equipment.

Bibliochef: I read recently that your grandmother was a home economics teacher. I have to admit home economics  was not my favorite high school subject (I blame that on the sewing portion). Did you take home economics? Do you see it as similar to today’s push to have school kids and others learn about food –like Alice Waters’ school initiative, for example? 

Dana: Yes my grandma Eva taught home economics, and my grandma Virginia taught mathematics. I couldn't cook without math, so they have both influenced me. I loved home economics, and I think we could benefit from their presence in our school curriculum. When I went to school it was mandatory for all genders, as was shop. We gained basic knowledge of tools in the kitchen and in the workshop, and because of that, I have a knowledge base for keeping a home. We seem to have eliminated any kind of practical life skills from our education in favor of testable curriculum. I would love to see our children gain practical knowledge, including basic cooking skills, food education, and nutrition. Without it, we are released into our adult lives, defenseless against the corporate push of processed foods as the mainstay of our diets, which I see as the major contributor to the American health crisis.

Bibliochef: I suspect you get asked often about the paucity of women chefs – and I also read your recent essay (found on Dana's blog) on the current rash of sexual harassment allegations in various industries, including restaurants and other parts of the food and hospitality industry. The essay itself might be your answer to this – but I have to ask: If you were to give advice to up and coming female chefs – what might that advice be? Are their good resources to know about? 

Dana: I would say, my advice extends to all genders. If we want an even playing field, we need to act as one. Sexually charged, sexist jokes hurt everyone, not just the target. For everyone, If you hear something try responding with "thats not ok" instead of laughing. Don't be afraid to use your voice, even if you don't think anyone is listening, or you don't see an immediate result. Just like sexism in the kitchen is infectious in ways people don't immediately see, so is your voice of resistance. If anything, it leaves you knowing you spoke up for yourself and for me, that alone is enough to boost my self esteem in ways that lift me through out my day. And you never know who else is listening, and how that message will carry on in them.

Then, remember, there is no kitchen that deserves to be elevated by your silence. No amount of stars, no ranking on the best lists. if they exist at the top while housing a culture of sexism, mysoginy, racism, bullying, or homophobia, they didn't get there fairly. They exploited a system and were lifted falsely. It doesn't matter how talented the chef is. Are they actually that much more talented? Or did they isolate, exploit, and step all over the other less aggressive talent around them? Don't waste your time. Find someone better. Lift someone else with your hard work talent who is going to protect you and lift you in return. 

And, don't be afraid to call people out. If you watch truly wonderful people make bad choices, you'll see them shift themselves when confronted with their misdeeds. They take it seriously, and take action to improve themselves. But they would never have the opportunity to grow if they weren't called out. The best of us still make bad choices. But we need to own them, and sometimes we need other people's help in seeing the error of our ways. We need those around us to help us see ourselves through their eyes. By saying "I don't like that. It makes me feel ______" We can amend our behavior. Those who lash out and victim blame when confronted with misdeeds, they may never grow up, so lets get out of their way and work with people who take the wellbeing of those around them seriously. 

Bibliochef: Thanks so much. I think much of what you have said will resonate -- it certainly does for me -- regardless of the "industry." Are there other steps to take to build the pipeline for more women chefs?

Dana: I don't know. I suppose men in the kitchen need to understand that they have to make space for women. They have been given more clout, and thrived in an environment that subtly, and not so subtly, made it too hard for women to succeed. It's hard to see when you're in the thick of it, struggling and working hard, that you're being lifted because someone else is being held down. All you can see is your own difficulty. I have seen women forge their way to the top, nothing was going to stop them. but I have seen more men lifted to the top without half as much effort, because their buddy was opening something and needed a second sous chef, or the chef "saw a bit of himself in them", which happens only happens when you share a gender. Or they became the sous chef because after 5 years that super talented girl couldn't take the unwanted touching and the space she left open was give to them. Ask this of men, you climbed to the top, was the space you filled only open to you because a women wasn't given the chance to be there? Or were you chosen impartially from a group of candidates that included women? If you never saw the pool of candidates, can you ever be sure what you have was earned fairly? 

I would encourage women to start a girls' club, lifting other women intentionally, until the playing field equals out. If the men aren't making space for us, we can make space for each other. We can continue to create opportunity until the culture shifts and equal opportunity exists without making space. And for petes sake, lets stop laughing with the guys, stop perpetuating the toxic joke culture that only leaves us behind. 

Biblochef: And, now to a totally different topic: ice cream! Can you tell us your first memory about ice cream – and if it is connected at all to your cookbook, Hello, My Name is Ice Cream (for a few remarks from me on the book, click here) and your ice cream line? (By the way, how did I miss you have an ice cream line? Or is there one?) 

Dana: You didn't miss my ice cream line, I don't have one. For a while I packed some pints for sale in chicago but I am not going to do that again until I can comply with the USDA standards for production. As for my first memory, I don't really know, it's just always been there in my life. Which is part of why I love ice cream so much- we can't even remember our introduction, it's always been with us. I have some distinct early memories, like ice cream socials at elementary school, where they would open up a square carton and slice you off a slab and serve it on a paper plate. Or demanding that my cake and ice cream be on separate dishes at my grandmas house. I remember always wanting chocolate ice cream, and watching my friend Colleen's dad pack ice and salt into an ice cream maker for home made strawberry ice cream. Mostly, I remember the popsicle truck and popsicles. maybe we were just a popsicle family instead. We always had a bag of twin pops in the freezer, but when the popsicle truck came around I could get a fudgesicle, or the chocolate and banana popsicle. 

Bibliochef: If you were recommending one essential gadget for everyone to have in their kitchen, what would it be?

Dana: An ice cream maker!!!!! 

Bibliochef:Ok, I should have guessed that!  I know you have been in and out of the Chicago food scene – that you are from Seattle and have been a chef or staged elsewhere, including Denmark as you noted earlier. Given that Chicago has been increasingly recognized as a foodie city, what changes have you seen in the city food scene in recent years? 

Dana: I've seen chefs parting ways with traditional fine dining and adding their creativity and high standards to fast casual restaurants, delivery services, and more economical concepts. I think the traditional lifestyle of a chef has driven some of our greatest talents from the kitchen, and they have sought other ways to continue feeding people and practicing their craft. 

Bibliochef: If you were doing a food tour for someone whose budget was unknown to you – or just making suggestions of must see/do food related detinations in the city, what would you recommend? 

Dana: I would suggest breakfast and pastries at Spilt Milk or bang bang, lunch at avec and lula, dinner at quiote and else, treats at spinning J and jenis splendid ice cream. And of course, a special trip to the publican with a group to order every dessert on the menu. 

Bibliochef: Wowzers -- how did I miss some of those? Next time I am in the city! And, now for a few more questions, ones that I ask everyone who is “interviewed” on Cooking with Ideas. What’s the absolutely best meal you have ever had? What made it the best meal?

Dana: One of the first cooks I worked with, Fernando, told me the number one meal of your life is the meal that is in front of you. It taught me respect for the food we have in front of us, and to remember how fortunate we are to have it. Instead of comparing meals and diminishing what we are eating, just to focus on what is in front of you and enjoy it for what it is. I stand by that, because after we consume a meal, it no longer exists, and all we have are memories of it. I'd like to keep my memories fond, and my heart open to enjoying what ever I am fortunate enough to be eating next. 

Bibliochef: I love that point of view. Thanks! So: What music, films, books related to food would you recommend? Why?

Dana: Hmmm..... I really loved the book Salt, it told about the history of the world through the lens of where we sourced salt. We can't live without consuming this mineral, and every civilization centered around accessing it. We really take it for granted in this day and age. I loved Ratatouille too. 

Bibliochef: What do you eat for comfort food?

Dana: I eat potato chips for comfort. And, ice cream. 

Bibliochef: I usually ask if people have a favorite restaurant in the Finger Lakes region, so let me know if you do! Otherwise, how about a favorite in Chicago or elsewhere?

Dana: Sad to say I've never been to the Finger Lakes, but my current favorite is cellar door provisions. i just love what they do, it's so well attended to, delicious, and it's a space I feel very comfortable dining alone in as a woman.

Bibliochef: What am I not asking that I should? What question have you never been asked that you have always wanted to be asked? What's your answer?  

Dana: Oh shoot I don't know! How about "If I had an extra puppy, would you want it?" and the answer is YES!

Bibliochef: Wowzers again! I do not, alas, have an extra puppy but if I ever do. . . . In any case, thanks so much for the "conversation!" As always, you have pushed me along to think and experience new things. And, I have to say": come visit the Finger Lakes! You can stay with us! 

For Dana's blog, click here. For others with Dana, including Saveur that calls her the new queen of ice cream, try here or, better, head on over to her digs in Chicago at publican and. . . eat!!! 

Spotted Duck: An Interview

As readers of this blog know, I encountered Spotted Duck Creamery this past summer and fell in love with their ice cream! I wrote a short review and sent it along to the folks there. And then what happened? We corresponded  and lo' and behold: an interview emerged! I am thrilled to be able to share it with you today, especially for those of you who love ice cream as I do. 

Bibliochef: Let’s start with how you got into the ice cream business! Could you describe your path to this? 

Elizabeth and Daniel: Initially, we began making frozen custard, at the suggestion of a relative, to attract more customers to another business of ours at the time. We began researching and experimenting. We chose frozen custard because of it's quality and superiority over "regular" ice cream. It was also important to us to develop recipes that were composed of the most basic ingredients and to use local and organic whenever possible. The frozen custard quickly became more popular than the initial business that it was suppose to be complementing. As a result, we closed the initial business and kept going with the frozen custard. We sold at farmers markets and fairs until we felt we had developed enough of a base to plant some roots and establish the Spotted Duck Creamery on our farm at it's current location. [Editorial comment: that location is 999 State Road 54, Penn Yan, NY.] 

Bibliochef: I know from the name of your business – and your ice cream – that what you do is unique because the ice cream is made with duck eggs. What started your interest in ducks? How did you come to focus on Ancona ducks? 

Elizabeth and Daniel: We came across the fact that many foods are improved with the use of duck eggs over chicken eggs, such as breads, cakes, frozen custard etc. We decided to try it with our recipes and saw a tremendous difference. The frozen custard was smoother, richer and more flavorful. We researched many duck breeds and settled on the Ancona for a variety of reasons. 1. They are a rare breed. We are passionate about perpetuating rare breeds to increase genetic diversity. 2. They have a longer laying season than other duck breeds. 3. They have a wonderful disposition. 4. They are beautiful and fun to look at. 

Bibliochef: For those who want to know more about Anconas, click here -- or visit Spotted Duck Creamery to meet some of them! On another note, I am amazed by the flavors you have and the flavor profiles. Can you describe how you come up with them? Do you have a favorite? 

Elizabeth and Daniel: Our flavors stem from a multitude of inspirations. Some are inspired by what fruits, vegetables, wines or liquors and herbs/spices can be obtained locally, such as our Grog Nogg. Other flavors have been inspired by friends that request flavor combinations such as our Tad's Java Junction. Some are weather related, like our Hot Mud. Daniel wanted a spicy flavor to keep him warm at winter farmer's markets. Some flavors are fun twists on traditionally favorites, such as our Strawberry Rhubarb. We try to take a flavor that everyone loves, such as cookies and cream, and change it a little to give our customers something unexpected and delicious. Our "Real Cookies and Cream" is made with chunks of our house-made chocolate chip cookies. Or sometimes we just want to come up with something fun and different and brainstorm until we get a good idea. Elizabeth's all-time favorite is Strawberry Rhubarb. Daniel's is Wild Black Raspberry. 

Bibliochef: I really liked the mint, I have to admit but the wild black raspberry sounds right up my alley too! I know you focus on custard ice cream – can you describe the differences in kinds of ice cream and why you chose custard? 

Elizabeth and Daniel: Frozen custard is a type of ice cream. In order to be classified as "frozen custard", it must have a certain percentage of egg yolk. We chose to make frozen custard because it follows our "food ideals". We want to produce a product that tastes fantastic, but is built with the most basic, yet high quality  ingredients. All ice cream needs an emulsifying agent, such as egg, soy lecithin or guar gum etc. We chose to use ONLY eggs for our frozen custard. 

BIbliochef: Are their other ice cream makers that influence or influenced you? 

Elizabeth and Daniel: We do not know any other ice cream makers personally. We love good food and want to share that passion with others. We want to make an ice cream that tastes fantastic and made with ingredients that don't leave you feeling guilty for eating it.  

Bibliochef: I love the idea of “flights of ice cream” – and was amazed that I could, indeed, eat a flight and still feel good! In fact, I was extremely happy! How did the idea of ice cream flights evolve? Who makes the gizmos you use to serve the flights? 

Elizabeth and Daniel: Our ice cream flights were inspired by our region and our desire to change the "ice cream experience". First, we are immersed in the craft beverage industry. There is a plethora of wineries, breweries, cideries and distilleries on all sides and we wanted to be part of that experience. Second, our goal is to raise the bar on the ice cream experience by offering unique presentations. A local carpenter makes the flight boards to our specs. 

Bibliochef: I have to admit I assumed that the wineries and breweries around us inspired your approach to ice cream "flights." Glad to learn I was correct. So, on to an area where I am truly clueless. Could you describe a day in the Spotted Duck Creamery life? This might be different in the “season” versus in the winter, I assume? 

Elizabeth and Daniel: A summer day at the Spotted Duck Creamery- Daniel is in the Creamery by 5am making frozen custard. He does chores by 6am. This includes letting the ducks out of the barn, feeding/watering the ducks, chickens, turkeys. peacocks etc., and collecting eggs. Afterwards, he continues making frozen custard until breakfast time. After breakfast,  he finishes the days' churning. Then, he prepares waffle cone batter and makes waffle cones before the Creamery opens at 11am. After closing at 9pm, Daniel cleans up. Often times, there are many other tasks to do after closing time such as, processing locally grown fruit for fruit flavors, making caramel for caramel flavors, cutting fresh mint etc. Before retiring for the evening, he puts the ducks in the barn. 

Bibliochef: Now there is a full day! (And yes, readers: in addition to flights you can get sundaes and cones -- with the homemade waffle cones just mentioned, at Spotted Duck!) As folks who have been in the Finger Lakes for a longish time, could you say what you think are important changes in the region and reasons you find this the place for you?

Elizabeth and Daniel: An increase in tourism, largely due to the local craft beverage market, has helped to create the traffic and the "food culture" to sustain businesses such as ours.

Bibliochef: Agreed! While there are moments when the (literal) traffic drives me mad, it is certainly good for the economy! And, now on to questions I ask everyone. What’s the absolutely best meal you have ever had? What made it the best meal?

Elizabeth and Daniel: We can not pinpoint a best meal. We love exploring new foods and ways to prepare it. But our ideal meal consists of: 1.unique dishes prepared with locally sourced, organic foods and presented in an interesting way 2. food paired with local beverages 3. meals shared with good company

Bibliochef: I see how the criteria for your ideal meal influence your ice cream! What music, films, books related to food would you recommend? Why? 

Elizabeth and Daniel: In general, we encourage everyone to discover their food. Find out where your food is grown/raised. Research growing methods, food additives and processes. Be informed. We are big promoters of knowing your farmer. Buy locally produced vegetables and meats. The food you put in your body IS your medicine. It determines your health for today and the rest of your life. 

Bibliochef: What do you eat for comfort food?

Elizabeth: Everything! 

Bibliochef: Hmm! And Daniel's let off the hook there! I usually ask if people have a favorite restaurant in the Finger Lakes region, so let me know if you do! Otherwise, how about a favorite elsewhere?

Elizabeth and Daniel: There are many places that we haven't even tried yet! But we love Roots.

Bibliochef: So, finally, what am I not asking that I should? What question have you never been asked that you have always wanted to be asked? What's your answer? 

Elizabeth and Daniel:Nothing that we can think of.

Bibliochef: So, thanks for putting up with my curiosity! I look forward to more of your ice cream and hope that readers will venture out to try some as well. Happy Fall! 

Radio Foodie: Michael Warren Thomas

There I was, waiting on my partner, listening to the radio kind of vaguely, and wow! Suddenly, Geneva's food scene was the topic of extensive, intelligent and informed discussion. What was I listening to -- I asked myself. It was Savor Life, hosted by Michael Warren Thomas, a long standing food show on WYSL AM 1040 and 92.1 FM. I waited to hear his email address and then wrote him, suggesting he might want to know Alice Waters would be in the area in September. And, then, after discovering his website Savor Life, I wrote and asked him to do an interview for Cooking with Ideas.

Lo and behold! Here are his responses -- I hope you will enjoy learning about his passions as much as I do! And do visit his website to nudge him to update it! You will see why below.

Bibliochef: Thanks so much for agreeing to do this interview. Let’s begin by exploring how you came to have radio shows and why they focus on food. Can you describe your pathway to doing radio?

Michael: I started a natural lawn care/landscape design company in 1989 called Naturally Green, and taught many continuing education courses to encourage people to use fewer pesticides and consider alternatives to lawns. I really enjoyed teaching adults about gardening, and was looking for ways to reach more people. One morning I stopped at Donuts Delight on Empire Blvd, and one of the counter staff told me that my voice would be great for radio. I couldn't interest any stations in having me do a gardening show, but in 1994 I got the opportunity to buy time on a station from 7-8am on Saturday mornings. It cost more than I could afford, but when I mentioned it to Kathy & Stephen Kepler of Sara's Garden Center, they said they would sponsor me until I could attract additional sponsors. Because of that vote of confidence, they have had free sponsorship for the past 15 years.

I'm not much of a morning person, so 7am was a stretch for me to sound coherent on the radio. Over the course of several months the shows after me dropped out and I was able to move to 9am, which is far more reasonable (for me). Unfortunately, most of my sponsors closed for the winter, so I was not able to keep the show going year round and I lost my 9 am time slot in the spring and went back to 7am.  In 1996, I heard a food show on the radio in Boston, the Pat Whittley Show, which had been on the air for quite a few years. While I had quite a bit of gardening experience, listening to his show made me realize that I could host a food show and interview chefs and farmers. The food show helped to carry the gardening show through the winter, so I could keep my 9-11am time slot year round.

Bibliochef: Terrific tale! You lead me to ask how, if at all, do you see your radio work as linked to your college degrees in economics, political science and international relations?

Michael: My BA is from the University of Rochester, in Economics & Political Science. Other than the first three years after college when I did economic research for the Center for Governmental Research in Rochester, my liberal arts degree has helped me in more general ways. 

BIbliochef: Nice to hear the liberal education angle honored! Some might say that radio is “old fashioned.” Do you agree? And, if not, why not? How have streaming and related technological alterations changed what you do since you started?

Michael: Radio is old fashioned, but streaming and podcasts has brought it into the 21st century. I consider it the "Theatre of the Mind."  Unlike video which captures your full attention and leaves very little to the imagination, radio and audio in general allow you to simultaneously do other things like drive, exercise, cook, and garden.

Bibliochef: Love the "theatre of the mind" notion. How do you determine what you will cover on your show(s)?

Michael: I use an organic approach that others might refer to as haphazard. Most of my planning happens during the week prior to the broadcast, which allows me the flexibility to program people as I hear about things happening in the community. I don't do interviews with chains or big box stores, although I ran a few spoof ads for them on April 1st several years ago. I've been a strong proponent of local independent businesses since I started my shows. I am a "Chain of Independents" because I am an independent broadcaster on an independent locally-owned radio station (one of the few) with independent businesses as sponsors. Local businesses are vital for the unique fabric of our community, while the goal of chains to make the experience uniform.

Bibliochef: While your shows focus on a variety of themes, here at Cooking with Ideas we are particularly interested in how you got to food and wine as so critical to what you do? What is your pathway to that? Do you have earliest food experiences that are linked to what you do now?

Michael: I grew up in a family of people who love food. My mother taught home economics for several decades and said that she taught me how to cook so that I wouldn't need to get married until I was 35. I may know how to cook, but my wife is much better. I tend to handle the larger jobs of freezing sweet corn or pesto for winter. One of my most memorable food experiences as a teenager was a meal of 90 cheeses. A colleague of my father's was an engineer from France, and his father was a chef for Charles de Gaulle. He visited NYC and brought back all these cheeses for us to try. There were three trays of about 30 cheeses each, starting with the youngest and third tray had the longest aged cheese. In between offering these trays, he had several cooked cheese courses. I had never had a meal that lasted all evening and into the night, finishing about 2am.

Bibliochef: Amazing -- 90 cheeses! If you could interview anyone (from the Finger Lakes), living or dead, fictional or real, on your show, who would you pick and why? What might you ask that person or those persons?

Michael: I wish I had the opportunity to interview Dr. Konstantin Frank, Walter Taylor, and Charles Fournier. I've been encouraging people for years to meet the key people in the history of our region like Dr. Frank's son, Willy (who has now passed away), and Hermann Wiemer. Say hello to Art & Joyce Hunt at Hunt Country, Scott & Ruth Osborn at Fox Run, Ted Marks at Atwater, Lilian Taylor at Bully Hill, and Bev Stamp at Lakewood. We are lucky to still have family owned wineries in the Finger Lakes, rather than the corporate atmosphere of California wine country.

BIbliochef: You focus on the Finger Lakes, Toronto and Niagara. Why those three areas?

Michael: My website needs updating - I used to host shows about Toronto because there was a "fast" ferry that linked our two cities for several years. I hope to continue covering Toronto and Niagara in the future as only podcasts. At some point there will be another ferry that links our cities, perhaps like the one at the bottom of my main page for Toronto. Unfortunately we had the wrong ship (too big, too slow), using the wrong fuel (diesel), at the wrong time (SARS & 9/11). A closer connection to the most culturally diverse city in the world (Toronto) makes Rochester a better place to live.

BIbliochef: How might you compare the food and wine in the three areas? Do you have favorites in each of the areas in terms of wines? Foods?

Michael: Given that I no longer actively cover Toronto & Niagara, I would change the question to "How would I compare the food and wine around the Finger Lakes?

The small towns around the Finger Lakes are on the upswing, but Geneva is leading the way. Led by Microclimate Wine Bar and The Left Bank event space, the businesses on tiny one-way, one-block-long Linden Street have created a destination that is just beginning to establish itself. The FLX Table won Best New Restaurant in the United States last year, going up against much bigger restaurants in much bigger cities in a USA Today online poll, and the owners are working on several other concepts in the space next door (FLX Culture House, FLX Fried Chicken). A wonderful new restaurant just opened nearby, HJ Stead Company, as well as The Linden Social Club, Kashong Creek Hard Cider, and Wicked Water Wine Bar (just across Castle Street).

Bibliochef: Terrific solution to my question being out of date! And, like that Saturday morning when I heard you on the radio, it is exciting to hear you highlight my home town, Geneva! Given that you also do tours of various sorts, I wonder if you might have a fantasy location for a food tour (allowing your imagination to roam in time and place)?

Michael: About a year ago I stopped doing tours after 24 years of taking bus groups to the Philadelphia Flower Show, and occasionally a few other places. I needed to simplify my schedule and focus on my radio shows. Koning Day Tours runs excellent tours - I would highly recommend them.

Bibliochef: Are you willing to share your favorite recipe using local ingredients?

Michael: Basil from our garden with sunflower seeds in a fresh pesto, with summer tomatoes and sweet corn - it will be dinner tonight! That is a very simple recipe! Another simple one is Mark Cupolo's Sweet Corn Chowder recipe in the first Rochester Public Market cookbook. I've had corn chowder at many restaurants including some famous ones in California and NYC, but his recipe is in another league. 

Bibliochef: The following are questions I ask everyone! What’s the absolutely best meal you have ever had? What made it the best meal?

Michael: Dinner at Perigee Restaurant in Toronto, with fourteen courses - all of which had different variations for the three of us dining. They also paired each course with wine, and created a non-alcoholic beverage for each course for the person not drinking wine. The restaurant was in the Distillery District, but unfortunately has now closed.

Bibliochef: What music, films, books related to food would you recommend? Why? 

Michael: Botany of Desire by Michael Pollan and all of his subsequent books - wonderful writer and incredibly insightful about the role of food in our world. Dan Barber is another key author/chef, who featured a Finger Lakes farmer in the beginning of his most recent book, "The Third Plate." (For that see here.) 

Bibliochef: What do you eat for comfort food?

Michael: Peanut butter, crunchy is better - from Nunda Nut Butters, without salt, sugar, or any additives. It's great with a banana and good bread. That is the key, great bread from Small World Bakery or Flour City Bread Company. 

Bibliochef: I usually ask if people have a favorite restaurant in the Finger Lakes region, so let me know if you do! Otherwise, how about a favorite elsewhere? Or, if you cannot address this given your sponsors and your show, just skip this one!

Michael: Favorite restaurant - too many to name. Newest restaurant is HJ Stead Company in Geneva with the phenomenal Sam (Samantha) Buyskes as executive chef. She is an amazing person and I love her food. 

Bibliochef: I have not been there yet but am looking forward to it -- and likely an interview with her! In any case, here's my final question: What am I not asking that I should? What question have you never been asked that you have always wanted to be asked? What's your answer?  

Michael: What I would ask me? What are the issues that get you riled up?

1) Climate change - we must invest in renewables like we are desperate, because we are. I really admire Bill McKibben and 350.org

2) Lack of local wines in restaurants - We might be the only significant wine region in the world that does not support it's own wineries. There are a few restaurants that do, but when the average in Rochester is 7% Finger Lakes wines by the glass, and our state capital (Albany) only has 4% NYS wines by the glass, it is obvious that change is needed.

3) I would love to see more interesting non-alcoholic drinks in restaurants and bars. Sprite and Coca-Cola are boring and too sweet, but it is hard to find something as cheap (allowing such a high markup) as soda.

Bibliochef: Thanks so much for your generosity and ideas, Michael! Looking forward to hearing you again on the radio! 

For a reminder of some of Michael's talents, check out his website here. For a prior interview with him in Edible Finger Lakes, try here. And, for a view of the Finger Lakes form his perspective, try this at flx1. 

Interviews Coming -- Who Knows When!

 

(with thanks to comingsoon.net for the image) 

No, I am not announcing the next full solar eclipse (hint: 2024. hint #2: Geneva, NY will be a site for totality that year!)

Yes, I am noting a few things that are coming up on this blog. I hope you will spread the word. I am not quite sure when they will occur, but they are all in the works. 

What I am highlighting here are upcoming INTERVIEWS!!!!

Kelby Russell is a winemaker whose work in the Finger Lakes is well known, in part because of his eponymous rose! He is winemaker at Red Newt. He will be answering questions posed by bibliochef! 

The folks at Spotted Duck have agreed to an interview and I am in the process of writing up their questions and getting them out. You may have read about Spotted Duck here on the blog! Do know that visiting them is a seasonal thing -- and you better get there soon! 

Michael Warren Thomas of Saturday radio fame in Rochester and devoted, long time foodie with an eye on the Finger Lakes, is someone I encountered one day on the radio (yes, I repeated that) while sitting in a parking lot in Rochester). His show that day was focused on some of the wonders of Geneva, NY so I wrote off to him and . . . eventually . . . there will be an interview here. Here's where to find him on line. 

Are you a foodie who wants to be interviewed? Please say so in the comments! I have interviewed food scientists and faculty who teach food related courses, mystery authors who focus on food and winemakers. And I hope to continue to do so. 

Keep an eye out here. And please, help me by circulating the blog on your twitter feed, your FB page, or otherwise. 

 

 

 

Food and Religion with Philip Tite

I "met" Philip Tite years ago when he was a student at Wilfrid Laurier and I was a faculty person at Hobart and William Smith Colleges appearing via videoconference (yes, it was well pre-Skype) in a class he was taking. My role: discuss Mary Daly. And voila -- a friendship was born. We met in person because he saw me wandering a reception or ballroom or something at the American Academy of Religion a few years later (at most) and . . . we have stayed in touch ever since. Phil is author of multiple books (including: ) and is currently Affiliate Lecturer at the Jackson School of International Studies at the University of Washington in Seattle). He is author of multiple books including Conceiving Peace and Violence: A New Testament Legacy (2004),  The Apocryphal Epistle to the Laodiceans (2012), and editor with Bryan Rennie of Religion, Terror and Violence (2008, truth in advertising -- I have a bit part in the book!). He is, and he is indeed my friend, thoughtful in both senses of the word and very good at the act of friendship.

Here is an interview with him, and I can say this: the most fun in ages tweaking this and adding links!  Hurrah. 

Bibliochef: So, I have known you for what seems like decades, and somehow I did not know that you were interested in food. I learned it in part by seeing your food comments on FB and . . . Could you say how that came about?

Phil: Ah, great to see I can still surprise my friends! Yes, we’ve known each other for ages and I’ve long admired you as both an academic colleague and a friend. It’s nice to see that we are both foodies! Food really is wonderful, not only because it meets our physical need for nutrition, but also because of its broader cultural impact on who we are and how we understand the world around us. For myself, the journey into food likely goes back to my graduate days at Wilfrid Laurier University. I was so afraid of cooking that when it was my turn to supply a snack for a class session, I was convinced that everyone was going to die horribly after eating what I had made (I think it was a soufflé). I had never cooked for another person (when I wanted to learn to cook, my mother would swoosh me out of the kitchen so she could get dinner ready). But my classmates (and even our professor, Ron Grimes) survived and even seemed to like the dish. I learned an important lesson: one of the greatest stumbling blocks for a cook is simply being afraid. We need to realize that cooking is always experimental and that means that a flop is okay. Fear is always our worst enemy.

But it was really when I was a doctoral student that I really fell in love with cooking. My then life partner, Colleen, is a real foodie. Her brother is even an amazing chef here in Seattle. We used to love cooking together, often taking turns cooking and reading classical literature to the other person. We were geeks. We were in love. And we were making awesome food. One of things I gained from that relationship was a passion for food, along with a set of culinary skills, and even a philosophy of food (i.e., experiencing food engage all five senses situated within commensal moments). We both loved to experiment with food, often using recipes only as beginning points or reservoirs for ideas. Eating out, we’d always try to brainstorm how we could adjust or change the dish and how such a change would impact the dining experience. Being lovers of ancient Rome, I still remember when she spent an entire day preparing a reconstruction of various dishes from a critical edition of Apicius that she was preparing a book review on. Through that relationship I developed a lot of confidence playing in the kitchen. And I found that I really loved cooking and playing with food and even thinking about food as part of our cultural identities.

Bibliochef: I can see the start of the answer to my next question but would love to hear more. So: how did this interest come to be connected to your intellectual – and pedagogical – passion/vocation in religious studies?

Phil: For years, I resisted linking my love of food with my love of religious studies.

Bibliochef: So did I!

Phil: Anyway, as a scholar, I’m more a social historian that focuses on textual analysis. So, food wasn’t a natural connection for me. I was also trying not to imitate one of my former professors, Michel Desjardins, who has had a huge impact on my life and my intellectual journey, but rather to be my own person in the academy. Michel had switched to “food and religion” as his main research topic years ago. I had already followed in his footsteps with the study of ancient Gnosticism and studies of religious peace/violence. And, Michel has always been a role model for me as to what a good teacher should be. So, I resisted following him into his love of food and religion. Imitation can be a great thing, but eventually we need to step out from our mentors on our own.

But my own journey eventually led me to an interest in the topic. Like I mentioned, Colleen and I loved to explore food together. And we are both academics and, to be honest, we embraced our inner geek on a very regular basis! Thus, thinking about food was just a part of my life. Back in 2010 or 2011, I did a little volunteer work for a local inner-city school, working in the after school program. I ran a weeklong thematic program that I called “pie camp”. I had about a dozen kids (roughly kindergarten to grade three) and, after first making our chef hats and aprons (they looked so adorable!), we made pies from scratch. There were glitches, flops, and successes. It was a fantastic week!

A couple years later, however, I was asked to design a course for a university core program (a general education requirement at the Jesuit university I was then teaching at) and the chair gave me complete freedom to design whatever course on whatever topic I wanted. A key goal, however, was to come up with something that would really appeal to students, especially students being forced to take a religion class that they really didn’t want to take. That evening I was browsing my collection of cookbooks while making dinner and I started flipping through my two world religions cookbooks. The thought hit me: why not use these as textbooks? It’s all cultural data and, just like other religious data, it’s open to being theorized beyond just the surface. Let’s design a course on food and religion! I found food-as-topic in religious studies ideal for shattering assumptions as to what is religion and how is religion played out (two interchangeable goals that underlie all my teaching). I’ve run the course a few times and it’s consistently been a hit with students, though, alas, I’ve not had a chance to run the course since leaving Seattle University

Bibliochef: Aha -- I now know you have done a course on religion and food. (And, I have to admit it was great to hear MIchel's name! I am out of touch. . . ) In any case, a few questions on the course;  Can you describe it? Why do you think this is a worthy topic to explore? How does treating the topics together lead you (and/or your students) to see food differently? To see religion differently? Or am I wrong in these assumptions?

Phil: Sure. It was a fun course to design and, I like to think, for my students to consume. And I think your assumptions are dead on. The course description runs as follows:

    This course offers a cross-cultural inquiry into the role of food within various religious traditions. Every culture shapes how food is produced, cooked,     consumed, and symbolized by its members. Although often overlooked in religious studies, food serves as a focal point for the construction of religious     identity as it is an integral ingredient for rituals, shaping social spaces (and roles within those spaces), social interactions both formally and informally, and     a key element in marking sacred times and festivals. Human relationship with the gods or God is tied into both literal and symbolic uses of food: sacrifice,     liturgical worship, martyrdom images, and even soteriological metaphors (e.g., in dietetic medicine). In this course students will be exposed to a range of     ways that food, cooking, and consuming serve in establishing, shaping, and maintaining religious communities. We will explore such topics as dietary     restrictions, gender roles and the demarcation of space, embedded values (as socialization process), celebration and feasting (including secularization of     holidays), and the metaphoric image of food. The course is designed along key themes in order to facilitate comparative analysis of various religious     traditions (e.g., Christians [Catholic, Protestant], Judaism, Jain and Buddhist traditions, Native American, Sikhism, Baha’i, and Hindu traditions). Our focus     is global, both geographically and historically (though the focus is largely on modern cultures), with an emphasis on the lived, experiential role that food     plays in religious communities. By taking a global perspective, it is hoped that students will develop an appreciation for the contingent, ever-changing     nature of religious groups. Food plays a role in such identity negotiation, especially within diaspora communities (what is increasingly being studied as     immigrant religions). Here food practices migrate with people, and, like those individuals, are transformed within their new context as they are used to     preserve or modify identities. We will also look at the very construction of “religion” as a commodity, such as we find in tourist objects (e.g., cookbooks),     a construction that reinforces and normalizes the “world religions” model that has dominated Western understandings of “religion” since the     Enlightenment.

Let me highlight a few things that I think are central for this course and why it is so unique and valuable for students to study, especially perhaps students who are not religious studies majors.

(1) This is not a course on religious traditions in the typical sense of “the big five” or “the big eight”. [A comment from Bibliochef: this is, for those of us in religious studies, shorthand for various lists including some combination of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto, Confucianism, etcetera). In fact, much of what we do is to challenge the category “religion” as a self-evident category. Yet, we are not simply deconstructing “religion”, which is what I keep seeing in so many theory circles these days, but rather to look at how social actors (“people”) build and use religion in their cultural and social engagements. This course, therefore, is far more thematic than tradition oriented.

(2) Food is not treated as just an object, but rather as a site for cultural engagements and identity negotiation. A few months ago, a colleague and friend of mine from the University of Toronto, Aldea Mulhern (who is a religious studies specialist in the study of food and foodways), stressed to me that foodways encompass ideas and values along with processes and objects. It’s not just consuming food, it’s all the other stuff around food that we need to look at as well. The course was very much a cultural studies course rather than a typical “religion” course.

(3) The first time I taught this course I learned a lot about religion and food (and culture more broadly). One thing that come out for me was that there is an informal and formal use of food within religious contexts. I jokingly asked my students, “What is more important or central for people going, for example, to church on Sunday? Listening to a sermon on some obscure theological point or going for coffee and donuts afterward and complaining about the sermon?” And, to add to that question, is the recognition that often people will assign greater significance to the formal religious contexts and activities, but will really center their identities within the more informal moments of commensal interaction. Sometimes food does function (literally or metaphorically) in formal activities, such as in Buddhism, so it is worth looking at how social actors use food to define space, identity, and all that jazz.

(4) Food tourism, colonialism, and migration all came to the foreground in the study of food and religion. Again, I learn with my students—and in this course I kept learning day in and day out! How does food function in maintaining or challenging cultural self-understandings when one migrates to another place? Are stereotypes of diet more readily played out, resisted, or transformed? Does food link immigrants to both the host culture and the home culture? Is the effort to maintain such a link ironically a step in creating greater distance rather than proximity to the home culture?

Does “authentic cuisine” play a role that it wouldn’t in the host culture. For example, if I were to ask you to join me for lunch and we wanted to do Chinese, we would have particular ideas of what “authentic Chinese food” is. But if we were to qualify “authentic” as “what actual Chinese people eat”, then, as one of my students who had studied abroad in China noted, going for McDonald’s would constitute Chinese food.

And we talked about food tourism, both the tantalizing experience of food while traveling abroad and, perhaps for most of us on a more regular basis, eating “exotically” on the local level (e.g., going for Indian food at the restaurant just down the street). Exotic cultural experiences are a legacy of colonialism and a continuation of Orientalizing other cultures.

In other cases, immigrant communities would adjust foodways to fit new social and cultural contexts, yet still advancing the values that the community sees as central. We noticed this in both the langar meal among Sikh communities in Vancouver, BC and among charitable work by the Hare Krishna communities in London, England.

(5) One article we discussed looked at the question: who owns recipes and when does “plagiarism” of culture occur? Does it occur when a recipe is in print or does it occur when it is taken from people in the local cultures? Again, this is about power relationships played out through food and foodways. Food can be a site for cultural appropriation and cultural assimilation due to the negotiation of social boundaries. It’s really very fascinating.

(6) Power relationships and social roles are central in the study of food and religion, at least in my course. Gendered roles were particularly significant in our discussions, in part due to the course readings we worked through. What I gained from that was the insight that people would use food to shift centers of community power, sometimes while challenging patriarchal structures and, more often, in affirming those structures yet shifting power to kitchen from the sanctuary (i.e., the sites where “real religion” takes place). Again, food is more than food. It’s part of broader socialization processes: we learn how to be gendered and what values and behaviors are expected of use through food and things related to food. I’m reminded of Emily Bailey's wonderful study of American Victorian cookbooks and Pamela Klassen’s fascinating article on Russian Mennonite women’s use of cooking to establish authority within a patriarchal context. And let me repeat: the informality of food, I think, adds greater influence to food for religious identity than perhaps some other, more formal, aspects of a religious community (such as sacred texts, theological debates, etc.). I think the fact that with food people just do it as an everyday thing, that it becomes an inscribe part of who they are and how they see the world around them.

Bibliochef: I love the way you set up the themes in your course -- wow -- and also around restrictions, life transitions etc. Do you have a favorite theme? A favorite reading?

Phil: Thanks! As I mentioned above, I really didn’t want to teach this course along a tradition-by-tradition approach, but rather around themes. I think teaching thematically allows us to tackle more theoretical and interesting questions about religion, food, and human communities. Doing this not only helps shatter the world religions paradigm, but it also helps students see the relevance of the course beyond just the compartmentalized discipline of “religion” or a given religious tradition. And doing that both helps motivate students to learn and encourages them to think more critically about the world around them, seeing people, communities, policies, etc. in a new light and with new eyes.

My philosophy of education, as I put it on my personal website, is: Access to knowledge – Freedom to think – Empowerment to Choose. I tried to design this “Cooking Religion” course to follow that pedagogical philosophy.

As for a favorite theme or reading, that’s a tough one! Most of them were awesome to work and each time I ran the course, new themes and ideas would grab me. I guess one key theme that has resonated with me is commensality, the “eating with”. The article we read dealt with both hierarchal and egalitarian social relations through commensal moments. But it also touched on health (on the issue of obesity), comparing European and North American contexts. Often in North America we focus on healthy eating as biological or physical, whereas Europeans tend to stress social moments as part of healthy eating. As someone who sees himself as a social historian, I love that idea: we are social creatures and how we eat—in isolation or in social interactions—will shape how we are impacted through food.

Bibliochef: Nicely put. And now, for something more speculative -- you can invite anyone living or dead to a meal that you cook. And, you are unconstrained by budget. Who would you invite? On what might you dine?

Phil: That is such a tough question! Hmm… one idea is Jesus. I’d like to host the last supper and spike the punch just to see what happens. But likely I’d be bored. I think there would be other historic figures that would be more interesting. Oscar Wilde definitely. I’d love to spend an evening listening to his voice, hearing his amazing words flow as I keep refilling the wine glasses and we dine on roasted goose with a maple glaze, served with caramelized shallots and carrots (with diced dill and rosemary along with sprinkled roasted pine nuts), pickled pears, and pumpkin polenta, preceded by a rabbit noodle dish that had been slow cooking all day, with either a caramelized apple tart or rich chocolate mousse with a lovely Ontario ice wine for dessert. He’s one of the most beautiful and eccentric figures of history.

But if I were to go “ancient”, then I think I’d like to meet (someone I mentioned before) Apicius—if, that is, he even existed. I have a feeling we’d end up experimenting in the kitchen, reworking many of his collected recipes. Being a good Roman, we’d have lots of dipping sauces, with lots of lovage for seasoning, and I’d like to cook ahi for him with a delicious balsamic vinegar reduction poured on top. I might even get one of my ad hoc roasted duck recipes into his cookbook for all time! Ah, if only I could time travel, how I would change culinary history. 😊

But if I chose someone living, then I think I’d love to cook for Ina Garten as part of a larger dinner party (you’d be invited!). I love her cookbook, Barefoot in Paris: Easy French Food You Can Make at Home (New York: Clarkson Potter, 2004). I think I’d take some of her recipes, tweak them, and see what she thought of the new dish.

Bibliochef: My answer on the invite: yes! Now: You can travel anywhere in space/time for a religious event focused on food. Where/when/why?

Phil: Another tough one! Thinking about it, I think (if the legend is true) that I would love to be there when the Mughal emperor, Akbar, in the late 16^th century lowered himself to the status of the common person to participate in the langar feast. What an amazing moment that must have been not only for him but for his subjects. That in this context, in this moment of commensality, through this meal, all were seen as equals—as human beings tied together through eating. I admire the four basic Sikh principles embodied in the langar: equality, hospitality, service, and charity. And seeing those principles at play in that historic moment, if the legend is true, would have been an awesome moment and a powerful comment on humankind.

Bibliochef: Ok, I had to look this one up; I had no idea what langar feast referred to! (Readers: you can click the link for some background, but do know I went further than Wikipedia and you should too!)

So: from events to texts. If you were creating a cookbook, focused on one ingredient what would it be? Why?

Phil: Hmmm… In kicking this one around, I keep coming back to basic ingredients I like to use or wish I could use. My passion for garlic (yes, I’m madly in love with garlic!), my strawberries (I grow seven kinds of strawberries on my balcony), quail eggs (I raise quail on my balcony—yeah I’m weird. 😊 ), lovage (a standard Roman seasoning now very hard to find), duck (seriously one of my favorite meats), rhubarb (I do wonderful things with rhubarb), or even beer (living on the west coast I have access to amazing beer! Wouldn’t it be cool to develop an entire cookbook on beer recipes?) all come to mind. And “fat” would be a good one, but there’s already an amazing book out there on fat (yes, fat is actually a good thing).

Yet, as I consider the option, I find myself thinking of one of my favorite scents: lavender. Lavender, rosemary, and roses are my favorite scents—and they all grow in abundance here in Seattle. But wouldn’t it be cool to learn more about different types of lavender? To figure out how to work it into sauces, drinks, teas, etc. Yes, I think that if I were to do a cookbook—a cookbook with lots of background research focused on one ingredient—it would be lavender. 😊

Bibliochef: I love the various answers here and that you rise strawberries and QUAIL!!! I have to admit as I edited and added links, I tried to imagine a dish with many of the ingredients you mentioned!

So: if you were recommending one essential gadget for everyone to own, what would it be? (I leave it ambiguous re religion or food?)

Phil: There are so many things I could list! I think of my cast iron pans, my collection of Le Creuset pots, my mixing boils, my various cutting boards (wood and bamboo), and my favorite wooden spoon (silly but true; I actually develop emotional ties to my kitchen tools). But I think that the most important thing for me is a good, well-sharpened chef’s knife. I love my knives. I have a few Mac knives, but my favorite knife is my Wüsthof chef knife. This is the most versatile of the knives and it is the one that a person (myself at least) develops the closest relationship. I used to have a Dick chef’s knife, which I think is an even better knife, but that went with Colleen. I spent a long time choosing a new knife. The key is not to select what another person likes, or even to follow the price tag (as if cost equals quality), but rather to find a knife that works for you. The chef’s knife should be an extension of your arm. Finding a knife that fits your own style of chopping or cutting is important. I tend to do a lot of rocking cuts, so my knife (an Epicurean style Wüsthof knife) is perfect for me. I remember when I bought this knife. Although I’d already made my decision, on a whim I tried a very high-end Japanese knife. It was gorgeous, but it wasn’t for me. After accidentally slicing deep into my thumb, and the store personal rushing around to stop the bleeding and find a band-aid, I realized that this was not the knife for me. Don’t get me wrong, it was an amazing knife. But I didn’t have the feel for it.

Oh, and beyond second to chef’s knife, the most important thing to have in a kitchen is a playlist of Queen music! Seriously, I love cooking and dancing to Freddie Mercury while getting tipsy. Who doesn’t?

Bibliochef: Well, that was wonderful. I may have to pursue you for the questions that I always ask everyone -- but for now -- loads of food for thought. Thanks Phil. Lovely to meet you -- again! 

 

For a much earlier interview on Cooking with Ideas with a scholar of religion, Lynn Poland, on teaching about religion and food, click here. 

Jesse Badger: Sous Chef at Untitled Supper Club (and My Friend)

Jesse is a friend -- and I am so grateful to him for his willingness to do this 'interview" -- and to do it via email despite a terrific suggestion we do it a la Hunter Thompson. He truly helped to jump start my willingness to ask for help now and then when I need it. To do it on the blog is at least a start to trying to do it in life. And, Jesse (and Kelsey) have taken Betty and I to terrific places in Chicago -- and are good friends who help me in more ways they know. 

Jesse Badger, chef, is someone I have experienced in his urging me to try things I might not (jellyfish?), in the amazing goat dishes he prepared for the coming together the day before his wedding, and in other ways. Some of you may know him from his stints at Spoke and Bird or the Little Goat Diner in Chicago,  or in Indiana at The Green Door, or in Kentucky (for example). He is now Sous Chef at Untitled in Chicago, Michelin Bib Gourmand recognized and soon to be visited by . . . 

Bibliochef: First, thanks for doing this I appreciate it and know Cooking with Ideas readers too. What led you to a life in which food plays such a central role?

Jesse: I've enjoyed cooking for as long as I can remember and the first job that I ever got was in a restaurant where every new hire (I was actually hired as a busser) was required to work in the kitchen for 30 days. I was really good at it and enjoyed it and basically never left. I have worked in restaurants ever since.

BIbliochef: Amazing how those early jobs that on eat surface seem not-so-wonderful, like bussing tables, can lead to a lifetime vocation! Where is the best place you have cooked?

Jesse: On a charcoal grill in my backyard on a nice day. 

Bibliochef: Ok, now that is the best answer I have ever heard. Having started as a busser, and in the intervening years, you have had various roles in various restaurants. What role is your favorite?

Jesse: I like being a chef, not necessarily the Executive Chef, as long as I have some room for creative expression. 

Bibliochef: When you create recipes or menu items for restaurants, how do you know when it is right to put on the menu?

Jesse: Just look for a good balance of the five primary flavors (salty, sweet, sour, bitter, and umami), a concept or technique that is worth featuring, probably something utilizing produce that is particularly good at that moment, and if it is enjoyable to eat and look at, then I'd consider it done. 

Bibliochef: Hmmm. I wonder if that works at home too. Every once in a while when I make things sans recipe I go just a little too far adding things and probably should just stop earlier. . .

Knowing that you were also a graduate student in literature, what is the best food scene or work that you suggest we all read?

Jesse: I'd say Blood, Bones, and Butter by Gabrielle Hamilton is one of the best pieces of "food writing" I've read. I put that in quotes because, it is actually just one of the best pieces of autobiographical writing I've read, it just happens to be by an excellent chef that I admire. She now several years later also has a cookbook, Prune, that is a nice companion work for people who are interested in seeing how the ideas in her autobiography relate to the actual food at her restaurant.(Her restaurant is also called Prune.)

Bibliochef: Ok, I admit it, I am having a memory lapse and think I read her autobiography, and reviewed it here on the blog. But I cannot find it. Those "filing" errors are annoying! Maybe I ought to stop using cute-sy titles for reviews and ensure the book title is there! In any case, I will certainly be out there looking for her cookbook and I know at least one person (you know her too) who has wanted to eat at Prunce forever.

Another question: You can invite anyone living or dead to a meal that you cook. And you are unconstrained by budget. Who would you invite? What would you cook – or would you want someone else to cook?

Jesse: This in all fairness should be two separate questions: first, who I'd invite to cook dinner for and second who I'd like to cook for me. 

If it was me cooking, I'd invite M.F.K. Fisher and I'd make the best oysters I could get my hands on with nothing on them, a selection of perfectly ripe cheeses, fresh pasta with ragu Bolognese with a lot of organ meats in it, entrecote steak-frites with bearnaise, and for dessert seasonal fruit pie with buttermilk icecream. 

If I was inviting someone to cook for me, it would probably Frédérick Morrin and David McMillan from Joe Beef, Liverpool House, Vin Papillon, et al. Based on their cookbook, various interviews they've done, and essays they've written, it seems like they would throw a killer dinner party. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm guessing their menu would be really similar to the one I outlined above.

Bibliochef: Good idea to split it into two questions! I may steal that in the future. Having had bucatini with a goat rage on it that you made, I am jealous of the meal with M.F.K. Fisher. And, on the two guys, you set me googling (and reading this piece for example) -- and planning a trip to Montreal where I have not been in some time.

If you were creating a cookbook, focused on one ingredient what would it be?  

Jesse:  there hadn't been three different books in the last few years that came out all dedicated to eggs, I would have said eggs. I'll get ahead of this one and say bacteria, most commonly Lactobacillus acidophillus but there are a few others. Bacteria are essential for a lot of the food trends that are coming to the forefront right now (fermented pickles, dry-cured meats, sourdough breads, etc) but no one has really focused on the usage of specific strains of bacteria as an ingredient, although David Chang and a few others are already funding university research that is trying to do just that, so it is definitely an area where I, and the culinary community abroad, have a lot of interest.

Bibliochef: Zowie! Can;t wait to read it. If you were recommending one essential gadget for everyone to own, what would it be?

Jesse: A stainless steel rod cake tester. These serve more purposes than most people could possibly imagine from checking doneness on meat and fish, to docking homemade crackers, to testing cakes. You can even use them to make really fine Trofie pasta by rolling the noodles around the shaft. 

Bibliochef: Bricolage! And, that simple gadget saves at least one person you know from under done cakes. It strikes me that life is filled with the need to balance improvisation and discipline. Would you say this is the case with being a chef? How?

Jesse: Probably the most obvious way that this manifests itself in cooking, professional or otherwise, is that many of the ingredients we use are essentially unprocessed organic products and differ from one to the next: no two lemons have the exact same levels of acidity, tannin, and sugar just as no two tomatoes taste exactly the same. Because of this it is necessary for us to be able to taste and "improvise" an adjustment that will yield a desirable result from different materials each time. Discipline plays into this in that the more consistent our technique, the fewer other variables we are introducing to the process, thereby making it more consistent and replicable we can make the result.  

Bibliochef: Thanks. Somehow navigating between these two seems to be the essence of. . . well, survival and life too? Foodies like me – who are definitely not food professionals or chefs – have lots of illusions about what life is like for a chef. What do you think we ought to know about what it is “really” like?

Jesse: A lot of it is pretty boring like entering invoices and costing out recipes. Even expediting service, where you stand at the pass and check every dish, adjust seasoning, clean plate rims, and add final garnish is really just doing the exact same things hundreds if not thousands of times in a row. It takes a very specific type of person to enjoy that aspect of being a chef.

Bibliochef: There is a tiny bit of repetitiveness for the hobby blogger too -- though I know it is not at all the same! In my case, every interview here includes questions I ask everyone. The first of these is: What’s the absolutely best meal you have ever had? What made it the best meal?

Jesse: Probably the extended tasting menu at Osteria Francescana when it was #1 on San Pellegrino's 50 Best list. The food was all perfect and there was a logical progression of courses not just in flavor and heaviness, but also ideologically which makes sense as Massimo Bottura is one of the most cerebral and philosophical chefs working today. The beverage pairings were delicious, creative, and unorthodox (definitely the only place I was served yuzu kosho infused sake as part of an ostensibly Italian tasting menu). The service was simultaneously unobtrusive, friendly, professional, and funny. Most interestingly of all even after all the research and hype before we went to dinner there, they managed to not only live up to our expectations, but also to exceed them and surprise us.  

Bibliochef: Jealous -- having learned about him some from the documentary on him in the Chef's Table series! Another question I ask everyone: What music, films, books related to food would you recommend? Why? And I ask it even though you have referenced some earlier in our interview. 

Jesse: I'm going to go with two dramatically different people whose monikers both start with MF: M.F.K. Fisher and MF Doom.  

M.F.K. Fisher (who I said I would like to cook for earlier) is one of the best known food writers in history for good reason, and her collection The Art of Eating includes some of the best American food writing of all time. If you can only read one work by her, it is a good way to make that one work actually include several books. 

MF Doom is an avant-garde hip-hop artist, probably best known for his collaboration with Madlid called Madvillain (which also includes a couple of arguably great food related songs in "One Beer" and "Meatgrinder"). However the album in question is his solo work, MM...Food  which is an anagram of MF DOOM and deals exclusively with songs centered around food imagery, references, puns, and some just straight up about food, there are also a tone of samples related to food used throughout the record. Like most of his material, it is clever, thoughtful, and genuinely funny. 

BIbliochef: You may have led me to hip hop and gotten me to listen! And again a question for all interviewees here at Cooking with Ideas: What do you eat for comfort food?

Jesse: Pasta and noodles of any type. 

Bibliochef: When I began this blog long ago and lived full time in the Finger Lakes, I would  ask if people have a favorite restaurant in the Finger Lakes region, so let me know if you do! Otherwise, how about a favorite in Chicago or elsewhere?

Jesse: Café Marie-Jeanne in Humboldt Park is probably the most obvious choice for my favorite restaurant in Chicago right now. The quality and creativity of the menu at that price range along with an excellent natural wine program make it pretty hard to beat, not to mention that they are open for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day except Tuesday. Honorable mention goes to Potsticker House (previously Ed's Potsticker House), which is probably the restaurant that I have eaten at more times than any other in the entire world and ALWAYS recommend to people when they ask about my favorite restaurants.

BIbliochef: Two more for my list! And, finally, one last question. What am I not asking that I should? What question have you never been asked that you have always wanted to be asked? What's your answer?

Jesse: I kind of always wanted someone to ask what the first thing I distinctly remember cooking was, because the answer is so ridiculous: it was a petite green salad with sherry vinaigrette, Lobster Thermidor, asparagus with Hollandaise, and Baked Alaska. I made it at my parents' house in the middle of nowhere in southern Indiana in the late '90s when some of the specialty ingredients were pretty hard to come by and I used literally every piece of equipment in our not super well equipped kitchen. Everything came out great except for the Hollandaise, which I made a little too acid and spicy so it overpowered the asparagus, which was from our own garden at the time.

Bibliochef: Well, that leads me to want to ask another question: who ate that meal? But, instead, just this: Thanks for humoring me, and for sharing your words with CookingwithIdeas. See you soon. 

Aron Dunlap: Guest Post

Aron Dunlap is a colleague of mine at Shimer College, where he teaches and I . . . don't. He is Assistant Professor of Liberal Arts. Aron's work is varied, including a book on Lacan on Religion. But, he also has been thinking about a course on food and, as you will discover below, works with our students in the community garden. So: Aron and a Cooking with Ideas interview seemed like a great match. I am grateful to him for doing it!

Bibliochef: So, as someone also interested in religion, I want to begin there. In what ways is your interest in Christian theology and/or religion linked to your interest in food?

Aron: I’ll complicate the question even further. As I’m just finishing up my book on Lacan and religion, I’ll tie in psychoanalysis here as well. I think orality is a key term for connecting psychoanalysis and religion. Food is always important in religion precisely because this original connection with the world as experienced by the infant always remains our guide to what lies outside of us, whether that be world or others. We want to consume it and them, and are terrified that it and they may consume us. A brief example may clarify: My daughter’s first book addiction is to Maurice Sendak’s Where the Wild Things Are, which is precisely on these themes. Max is misbehaving and tells his mother that he’s going to “eat her up” – and so he promptly gets sent to bed without eating anything. He then fantasizes that he travels to the land of the wild things and becomes their king. After a night of revels he sends them to bed without their dinner. But then he is lonely and catches the smells of his mother’s cooking from across the ocean. He comes home and finds his dinner waiting for him in his room: “and it was still hot.” Growing up, for the very young child, is a navigation of eating and being eaten. And meals are crucial because they represent the perfect balance between self and other, between the raw sensorium we’re born screaming into and the cultured artifice that human beings attempt to live in. In Christianity, this tension is resolved most explicitly in the Eucharist, where Christ gives his body to be eaten, but in which he is not consumed; but, strangely enough, those who consume him are turned into him. So, there at least, the religious path is seen in terms of a special kind of eating and drinking

Bibliochef: Terrific example. And as someone whose graduate work was in religion and psychological studies, I like that you added the psychoanalytic! Would you say that the liturgical importance of food in Christianity is part of why the two connect?

Aron: I’d guess I’ve just answered this one in a way, but we can extend the importance of food outside of the liturgical framework. We can argue that the importance of the Eucharist makes farming, gardening and the soil one of the most crucial things for Christians to think about. And not only Christians, for it would be very difficult to find a religion in which food and food and drink offerings did not play a central role. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all begin in a garden and for each of these traditions the encounter with God is an encounter amidst fruit-bearing trees and running rivers. Even in the transfigured city of the book of Revelation those trees and that water remain. Even city-dwellers gotta eat.

Bibliochef: Ok, let's delve into the psychoanalytic a bit further. Do you see food as a likely subject of psychoanalytic inquiry?

Aron: Well, as I said, orality is absolutely key in the child’s interface with the world. From a clinical perspective food has been rather overshadowed by sex in the popular view of things, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the walls of consulting rooms didn’t hear just as much about eating disorders and alcoholism as they do of sexual issues. And, of course, inasmuch as sexuality involves a regression (or an embrace) to earlier phases (oral, anal, etc.) it is impossible to separate food and sex for the clinician.

Bibliochef: So, I interview by writing questions ahead of time, and I asked: Given the psychoanalytic connection of orality (and thus food) to early childhood, and your interest in children’s literature, I am curious – do you see the two as connected? Of course, that seems redundant here, given Aron's example above. And yet. . . .

Aron: I have been wanting to write a book on Harry Potter and theology for a long time. I don’t know if it will happen at this point, but my first conference paper was on the fourth Harry Potter book and the very original way in which the time travel sequence is conceived there. At this point I’m just excited to be able to relive all the children’s classics with my daughter. Just seeing how she reacts to them and ingests them is very enlightening. I remember reading The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings as a child and being so taken in by the food descriptions. I had no idea what scones or clotted cream were, but I knew I wanted to eat them.  Preferably for second (or third!) breakfast. Telling children stories about food (and it’s surprising how many stories are about food or incorporate it—think of Pooh and his honey) is a way of gently convincing them that the orality of speech can be just as rewarding as the orality they are used to, which is centered on their pleasure at the breast, and their sense that the world is theirs to consume whole.

Bibliochef: I know that you are involved with a community garden in Chicago. Can you speak to how that might connect to your more directly intellectual interests as well as to the classroom?

Aron: Well, this community garden is actually Shimer’s plot! We are in the beginning stages, but I think we had a very successful first harvest this year. We got some great tomatoes, some towering sunflowers (biggest in the garden!) and some other great herbs and stuff. For me, gardening is just a basic part of life that we should all have a general and basic knowledge of. So much of what we do now is virtual that it gets easy to imagine that the real world just doesn’t matter that much anymore. But our food still comes from gardens and from farms (no matter how large), and, in the long room, that ground is where we have come from and it’s where we return when we die. Seems like a good idea to know something about it, and to plunge one’s hands into that soil which we’ll all one day call home.

Bibliochef: As a student of popular culture (and I too have read the Harry Potter series), what do you make of the popularization of a kind of foodie culture?

Aron: Well, all fads become annoying at some point, but I won’t complain if people want to eat local food and learn something about gardening. It’s kind of like Whole Foods and similar fancy and expensive stores. These places come with a whole culture that can easily veer to the pretentious, but at the end of the day it’s thanks to these stores that we have access to some incredible food, that, twenty years ago, was just not available to most Americans. The biggest danger with the current food fad is that it won’t make it to those who need it most, those who live in the food deserts of our cities and small towns, where a bag of chips is often what’s for lunch. Shimer students are really aware of this stuff. In fact, I was just talking to one of our seniors who works for a South Side farmer’s market that focuses on impoverished neighborhoods about that lack access to fresh vegetables and other healthy foods.

Bibliochef: If you were teaching a course on food, and you could invite anyone – living or dead, who would you invite? And why?

Aron: Hmmm. There are some amazing food writers out there. I read, last summer I think, a collection by A.J. Liebling. He’s one of these guys who, one can tell with one look, likes his food. He spent years in France just eating his way through the country and the cafes of Paris. Yes, he got very fat. But I like the easy way he holds his knowledge about food. Ultimately, food is stuff that we all eat every day. The academic and scientific approaches are fine and good, but my favorite writing on food is writing that everyone can really sink their teeth into. It should be funny, too, because the reason no one likes to eat alone is that it’s very hard to laugh when you’re by yourself.

Bibliochef: If you could take your imagined class on a field trip to anywhere, (and perhaps anywhen), where would that be and why?

Aron: O, I think, just for the hell of it, I would go to that restaurant in Spain, El Bulli, where that guy, Ferran Adria, invented all those crazy recipes coming out of molecular gastronomy. Actually, I think the restaurant is now closed, so we’d have to go back in time a year or two. Honestly I think the whole molecular gastronomy is wrapped up in a more than just a little fadishness, but the stuff is pretty fascinating nonetheless. I would also like to be immersed in Chinese cuisine, maybe do a food tour of China or something like that. Their whole approach is so profoundly different.

Bibliochef:  I admit I would love to go to that restaurant in Spain as well! And now for some of the questions I ask all of the people I “speak” with! What’s the absolutely best meal you have ever had? What made it the best meal?

Aron: Meals can’t be separated from people and from the context in which they’re eaten (the meals, not the people). I’m thinking right now of a meal I had in Croatia visiting a friend from college. Her mother and grandmother spent all day making fish dishes – there must have been five or six very elaborate ones – and they were just fantastic. I remember most vividly this inky squid thing. I didn’t even know what I was eating, but I remember hearing something about how the Croatians show their hospitality by going to absolute excess with the amount of sea creatures involved. It was way too much food. Just perfect. Tying this back to theology, I think the whole notion of excess food especially when guests are concerned, which is a feature of many cultures, is connected to the theological notion of gratuitous donation. Being, the world, is a gift from God, but not a gift that is calculated or budgeted in any way. It’s pure, over the top, excess. The world and the beings running around on it don’t have to be here, but it’s sure wonderful that they are.

Bibliochef: What music, films, books related to food would you recommend? Why?

Aron: Well, Michael Pollan is pretty right on with everything he writes. I think his brief Food Rules could become a kind of Bible (number one rule: eat food (!)). I also love two Eastern films on food, Tampopo, which is a Japanese flic about ramen, and Eat, Love, Man, Woman, which is about the way family ties are always food ties in some way. That one is Chinese. It ends with an unexplained shot of a child breast-feeding for like 10 minutes.

Bibliochef:  What do you eat for comfort food?

Aron: Mac and cheese, mom’s recipe, very good with gruyere. Also, a very common Sunday brunch for my wife and I has become bagels with lox and a bloody mary. Some things just work, right?

Bibliochef: You may know that mac and cheese is my number one guilty pleasure!  I usually ask if people have a favorite restaurant in the Finger Lakes region, so let me know if you do! Otherwise, how about a favorite in Chicago?

Aron: Finger Lakes? Never been there, but they sound delicious! Frontera Grill for Chicago. Also, in my neighborhood of Lincoln Square, Fork (get the poutine, then die happy).

Bibliochef: What am I not asking that I should? What question have you never been asked that you have always wanted to be asked? What's your answer?  

Aron: You didn’t ask about music! But that makes me think that I’ve got way too many irons in the fire. It’s actually tough to think of many good songs that are about food. I don’t know why that is, and I honestly can’t think of any references in my own songs to food. O, that’s not true. I have a line in an old song about drinking milkshakes on the dock. I like that, especially now that it’s about 10 degrees outside my window. Nothing that a little raclette and wine can’t solve. Happy New Year!

Bibliochef: Well, actually I did ask about music, but hey -- your answers have been wonderful! And, while it is a tad past New Years as this goes up on Cooking with Ideas on February 1 (and we can only hope it is warmer now!), hurrah to 2014!

 

 

Anthropology and Food: An Interview with Chris Annear

Every once in a while, I am surprised by how small the world is. So, I purchased an issue of Gastronomica, which I read on occasion and love. And, it hung around in my briefcase for ages, as I slowly read along. Then, startlingly enough, a familiar name! A faculty person from Hobart and William Smith
has a piece in the issue I have been carrying around. How swell. And, then I ran into him recently and persuaded him to do this interview. His name: Chris Annear. His position: Assistant Professor of Anthropology. His picture? Here:

And, more importantly, here is our conversation.

Bibliochef: So, I have obviously read your piece in Gastronomica – but let us start with describing your work more generally. I know you are an anthropologist and have been pursuing it since at least your undergraduate days. What drew you to anthropology? And, for readers that are not academics, could you say what anthropology is?

Chris: Hi Bibliochef! I appreciate the opportunity to discuss my work. In a nutshell, I work on fisheries, food and funerals. I like to think of myself as an intellectual omnivore, but it seems that my topical tastes are more related than they may seem. Since I first studied anthropology and food at Hampshire College, I find that my interests have routinely returned to the same set of themes and topics as my career has matured. Aside from the alliteration of these topic names, the central themes that tie them together include human social experience and politics of sustenance. These were the themes that first drew me to anthropology as an undergraduate—although subconsciously at first.

I initially wanted to study animal behavior in college, but my mind was changed during a bumbling trip to learn about wild turkeys in New Mexico in January of my first year. My advisor at the time sent me out to help a friend of his at the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish relocate a flock of wild turkeys from one to another area of the state. I had asked to learn more about animal management, so I was thrilled at the chance to experience it first hand. However, things went contrary to expectation almost immediately upon arrival. In short we failed to catch and relocate the turkeys, but instead I learned all about the politics of how hunting and conservation interests are intertwined. I received an education about how human groups fight over natural (food) resources. Unlike the turkeys, I was hooked! I found the people to be far more interesting than the animals. 

Anthropology is the study of people, especially the cultural norms we generate and perpetuate socially within groups. What attracts me to the discipline is its “problem” or issue focus without concern for disciplinary boundaries. Anthropologists draw upon the knowledge and tools necessary to comprehend focal issues with human social experience. Typically we begin to study issues from the ground up, with long-term fieldwork being a vital component of our practice. 

I study the Mweru-Luapula freshwater fishery located in northern Zambia and southeastern Democratic Republic of Congo. About 250,000 people live on the shores of the fishery and benefit from its produce and economy. My fieldwork focus is on how communities of people fish, trade fish and adapt to the vicissitudes of regional ecology. The fishery is theoretically fascinating because scientists, colonial administrators, and even many Zambians have long expected Mweru-Luapula to be a manifestation of the “tragedy of the commons,” yet my analysis shows this to be a robust human and ecological system. My other work, as you know, includes studying food in Zambia, both its presence and absence, as a political arena. I have begun to research Zambian funerals as sites of cultural transition and cleavage. For example, in matrilineal northern Zambia relatives from a deceased person’s maternal side and those related by marriage often argue over who should receive the inheritance. 

Bibliochef: As an undergraduate at Hampshire College you wrote a thesis on the public culture of eating out in ethnic restaurants. Did you have an experience that made this an important topic for you?

Chris: I had long been interested in how groups of people learn about each other. So, I began with the hypothesis that American ideas about people from other countries are at least somewhat shaped by how other people’s foods are served to us in so-called ethnic restaurants. If this was the case, I thought, it would be fascinating to imagine that American restaurant patrons learn to think about Chinese people through the sugared down cuisine meant to appeal to an American palate.

Bibliochef: Given its title, “Going Native with Disposable Chopsticks,” I must ask: are you good with chopsticks?  

Chris: Not as good as I should be!

Bibliochef: From Hampshire, you went on to Boston University – and worked on Zambia, as you mentioned earlier. Why Zambia? And how does that connect to your early interest in food (and, I assume, in ethnicity)?

Chris: My experience in Zambia began as a happy happenstance. I was placed in Zambia as a Peace Corps Volunteer. Although as a Volunteer my work was to help people construct fishponds, it took me awhile to connect Zambia and my interest in food. The Zambian food staples I ate daily are actually pretty bland to my taste. These included nshima, a stiff bready porridge, boiled leaves, and caterpillars when in season. But when I eventually learned to recognize the centrality of food to family, ethnicity, and funerals, my interest grew. For example, there is an oft-repeated proverb in Chibemba, the language spoken predominately throughout northern Zambia, that states, “abalya mbulu, balapalamana.” This translates to those who eat water monitors stick together. 

Bibliochef: Ok, clearly I have to think through my eating habits! Has that work lead you to take a position on fisheries and related international law? 

Chris: Yes, in general people deserve the right to access the food resources they need to live sustainably. 

Bibliochef: If you were saying what theorist has affected your understanding of the meaning of food, any that pop to mind?

Chris: Like many others, I am indebted to Sidney Mintz and Michael Pollan. In their own ways they have shown me how food meanings are created socially and politically.

Bibliochef: As you noted, in your alliterative list, you also work on funeral cultures and mourning. I think Nancy Jay (in Throughout Your Generations Forever) has argued well that community and eating together are quite definitely related. And, of course, there is terrific work out there on mourning in terms of history and symbolic analyses. (Ok, I admit it, I co-edited a book entitled Mourning Religion.)  Do you have a view of how food serves a role in funerals and mourning? In ritual more generally? 

Chris: These are among the biggest and most important questions regarding food, in my opinion. Food and drink are, of course, symbols of community, but they are also mechanisms for social cohesion and exclusion. People in rural northern Zambia embrace clanship as a means of social organization. Each clan is categorized under a totemic figurehead such as a tilapia, crocodile, or mushroom. Not only do those within the groups so named avoid eating these potential foods, but regions become known for the supposedly odd foods people there consume. People in the Luapula region where I work are known as “savage fish eaters” (abatubulu) because fishers are said to eat the fish they catch on one side of their boat although they defecate off the other side. This becomes a tongue-in-cheek slur when Luapulans accuse their supposed adversaries in the eastern part of the country as being nothing but “primitive rat eaters.” The reason I say these are supposed adversaries is because members of the clans and regions that joke in this way also bury each other’s dead. This joking relationship that is formed to an important extent by food plays an integral role in modes of burial and mourning in Zambia.

Bibliochef: Does your work affect what you are willing to eat? 

Chris: Very much so. The more I study, taste, and commune with people around food the more I wish to do so! I was a vegetarian for seven years prior to cycling across the United States in 1992. On her birthday my girlfriend at the time and I were offered steak by a kind man in Blacksburg, VA named Dick Moose. At that moment I decided that I would rather accept his gracious hospitality than refuse a type of food. I haven’t restricted by palate since. 

Bibliochef: It seems to me, in the past years, that the topic of food has resurfaced as a topic of academic interest; at Hobart and William Smith, for example, there was a long prior history of attention to food through Farm House (alas now defunct), a very early course on World Hunger (taught, I think, by Professors Dick Heaton and Eric Patterson), for example. And, now, there is the notion of a food studies minor.  Why do you think the topic has resurfaced now in this way?

Chris: Thanks for the food studies minor plug! We hope to have it up and running soon. I think the only change from the past to the present is our collective recognition of food as an area worthy of scholarly focus. As we have discussed here, it is central to our social and visceral lives as human beings. Perhaps it took scholars such as Sidney Mintz to show us how food can provide an organizing structure for understanding power, class, and an economy of exploitation as he does in his book, Sweetness and Power. 

Bibliochef: Well, I have to admit that the folks who ran the World Hunger course and others certainly thought it a worthy topic of academic interest. But, I suspect they were looking at the topic somewhat differently. Are there any ways you would critique the foodie culture that seems to pervade American culture these days?

Chris: While I can never encapsulate all people who might self-identify as foodies, I am concerned that ideas related to being a foodie connect too closely with the consumption of rarified foods and class privilege. I would like to see greater affinity and involvement among foodies in issues of social justice and access to healthy foods for all people.

Bibliochef: And, of course, I must ask: you have published in scholarly books and in The Journal of Political Ecology. And yet, I encountered your work in Gastronomica. Would you comment on that journal – as well as the relationship between academia and the varieties of publication venues where we do our work?

Chris: I am greatly privileged to have published in Gastronomica: The Journal of Food and Culture. It is a wide-ranging publication about food with deliciously diverse tastes. Although it peer-reviews submitted manuscripts, it offers more than a disciplinary journal. Just as a culinary dish must be contextualized, sampled, studied, and integrated into its broader systems in order to be understood, Darra Goldstein, Corky White and other editors of Gastronomica recognize that food must not be constrained by medium or discipline. I think rigorous but also richly unbound journals such as Gastronomica exhibit the collaborative and interdisciplinary future of academia.

Bibliochef:  And now for some of the questions I ask all of the people I “speak” with! What’s the absolutely best meal you have ever had? What made it the best meal?

Chris: I like to eat, but I love to cook even more. While in the Peace Corps I had several basil plants growing out front of my small thatch-roof house, a cast-iron pot, a charcoal brazier, and a neighbor with a wood-fired oven made of corrugated steel roofing sheets. Over an 8-hour stretch while listening to the BBC World Service on my shortwave radio I baked pesto lasagna with homemade ricotta (lemon curdled, bandanna drained), fresh tomato marinara sauce, mortar-pestle pounded pesto, noodles from scratch, and eggs from my resident chickens. Bana Chibi baked the baguette loaves I prepared and I washed it down with a South African red wine flown to Lusaka, Zambia and hand carried the other 1,000 kilometers to my site. Although I ate alone, my pride in creation and time to think made this one of the most fulfilling meals of my life.

Bibliochef: What music, films, books related to food would you recommend? Why? 

Chris: I love to cook to the tango music of Charles Gardel and kazoo cheer of Paolo Conte. Although not directly about it, they sound like good food. I enjoy Mark Kurlansky’s light touch in regards to oysters, cod and his histories of other foods. Bill Buford’s Heat (reviewed some time ago here on Cookingwithidfeas) and most things by Tony Bourdain constitute guilty gustatory pleasures.

Bibliochef:  What do you eat for comfort food? 

Chris: Two eggs over easy, crispy home fries with lots of hot sauce, buttered wheat toast, coffee and sour grapefruit juice.

Bibliochef: Do you have a favorite restaurant in the Finger Lakes region? If so, what is it? 

Chris: I love most of the restaurants around Seneca Lake. Among these are Ports, Danos, Redman’s, Dallywater’s, Suzanne’s, Halseys, Red Dove, Pure, Stone Cat, and Uncle Joe’s. But my “favorite” is always the one that serves my next meal, because anticipation makes the food tastier!

Bibliochef: Okay, now there is a list and an answer! What am I not asking that I should? What question have you never been asked that you have always wanted to be asked? What's your answer?   

Chris: My mouth is full and my mind sated. Thank you!

 

Justin Miller on Chemistry and Food: An Interview

 

Justin Miller is a chemist who has taught at Hobart and William Smith Colleges since 2004. He graduated from Princeton and went on to M.I.T. for his Ph.D.  In addition to regularly teaching Organic Chemistry at the Colleges, he serves as one of the key faculty for students interested in the Health Professions. Justin has recently begun to teach a course which focuses on food and, of course, that's why the interview appears below!

Bibliochef: So, let’s begin with the basics! I know that you have taught (and will be teaching again) a chemistry course that focuses on food. Can you describe the course and let us know how you came to be teaching it?

Justin: The course is called Bonding with Food—incidentally, a name that my wife Julianne thought up.  Sometimes I think I should have included an ellipsis between Bonding and with to accentuate the double entendre.  What I think makes the course special is that two semesters of organic chemistry are required as prerequisites:  it’s meant to be a hard-core look at chemical processes in the kitchen-as-laboratory.  With students who truly understand organic structure and mechanism, we can cover the basics—proteins, carbs, and fats—in about 10 minutes.  Then the learning really begins.

My path to this course began in grad school, when my roommate chastised me for storing my chicken soup in a Ball jar that didn’t fit it…after it had expanded in the freezer.  “It’s a colloid,” he said “so of course it expands when you freeze it.  Didn’t you learn anything in general chemistry?”  This from a future cantor who used to sing “ ’C’ is for credit, that’s good enough for me…”  Then a couple of years later another friend of mine told me about the Food Network.  I mocked the idea.  Come on, a whole TV network dedicated to food?  How could you possibly fill the broadcast schedule?  At the time, the hot show was Iron Chef—the original, Japanese version dubbed in English.  Who’d want to watch people cook?

But then I got cable, and began watching, fascinated.  I had known essentially nothing about food chemistry, but found that a Ph.D. in organic chemistry really helped me understand the concepts on shows like Alton Brown’s Good Eats.  I learned, experimented a little in my own kitchen, and spent the next 10 years picking up little tidbits here and there.  When I mentioned to some students a couple of years ago that I was thinking of developing a food chemistry course, they were very excited.  So I did it.

Bibliochef: What a wonderful tale! So, what did students read for the course? (I admit I am a fan of Harold McGee’s book as well as Herve This on molecular gastronomy. In fact, I reviewed a book by This and called it possibly the best food book ever. Anyway, I am always looking for more!) Will they read the same things the next time you teach it?

Justin: McGee (On Food and Cooking) was essentially our textbook.  We read and watched some of Alton Brown’s work, and we used Shirley Corriher’s Cookwise and Bakewise.  There was also a scholarly review article in the journal Accounts of Chemical Research (2008) by This, along with a bunch of other offerings from the primary chemical literature.  And we ended the course with some culture and policy discussion based in part on Michael Pollan’s books The Omnivore’s Dilemma and In Defense of Food.

Until someone comes up with something better than McGee’s book (not likely, I think), we’ll use that one every time.  Alton Brown has set the standard with his accessible, scientific approach to food, so I don’t see dropping that content, either.  Corriher is well known in the Food and Agriculture division of the American Chemical Society and also as “the chemist” on Good Eats, so her offerings are appropriately scientific for my class.  I’ll try to stir the pot (ha!) with new primary literature, and the Pollan books, excellent as they are, may be too well known even by students to be worth the space on the reading list.

Bibliochef: As a chemistry course, I assume there are labs. Can you tell us some about those?

Justin: I think my favorite may have been the first.  I bought (ok, my wife bought) a large shoulder roast from the kosher butcher in Rochester.  We cut it into 7 or 8 pieces and then cooked each piece differently.  Braised, roasted, nuked, pan seared in a cast iron skillet, grilled, some of these both with and without brining first.  Besides the fact that the beautifully medium-rare grilled and pan-seared versions were absolutely delicious, we found something shocking: the nuked version wasn’t the worst!  The braised piece lacked both flavor and texture.

We also tried our hands at bread, pizza, light and dark roux, mayonnaise and hollandaise sauces, caramel, and a host of others.  One day we extracted colors from various fruits and veggies to determine whether they were oil- or water-soluble.  Then we played with the colors by varying the pH using vinegar and baking soda.  That was just plain fun.  True blue colors from food are rare, but we managed it that day.

I should also mention the eggs we cooked in an immersion circulator.  By cooking a dozen eggs to precisely controlled increasing final temperatures, we were able to see and feel as various egg proteins coagulated.  I forget which was my favorite—the 65 °C egg?  71 °C?  But I look forward to rediscovering which one I like best when I teach the course again this coming spring.

Bibliochef: I know the course had a blog – how did that come about?  Did they sustain it after the course was over? Will you use it again?

Justin: If you want to see the results of the experiments I just described, plus a bunch more, check out the blog: bondingwithfood.wordpress.com

We haven’t added to it since we finished the course over a year ago, but we will use it again for the next iteration of the course.  It was a slow starter, but once it got going, it was excellent.  One of my students (Megan, here’s the credit you richly deserve) was instrumental in getting this thing off the ground, and once she set the bar, everyone else matched it.  We have a wonderful record of the course from the students’ points of view.  I so enjoyed the vast majority of the posts, and the effort that went into them was tremendous.  I want to point out particularly the one called “Adventures in Cooking and Emulsions:  How I Could Have Saved My Valentine’s Day Dinner.” It’s a nice story, and gives a good flavor (ugh) for the kinds of things we learned in class.

Bibliochef: What’s the most surprising thing you learned while teaching the course?

Justin: Students are perceptive.  I knew that already, I suppose, but this was a showcase.  We all had a great time in the class, but during the assessments, they identified the biggest weaknesses of the course—the same ones I also identified.  Because it was a new course, I had to choose which aspects of the course to develop; the written assignments drew the short straw, and weren’t as well developed as they will be in future iterations.  Suffice it to say, they noticed.  And good for them!  They also wanted more orgo earlier in the course, which makes sense because the students who took the course were generally the ones who enjoyed orgo.  I knew that the orgo component wasn’t what it could have been, so they were correct.  What surprised me is that they missed it, and wanted more!

Bibliochef: It is amazing how much you accomplished in the course. What did you have to leave out of the course that you wish you could have included?

Justin: Beer.  Wine.  Alcohol in general.  No time, and besides, with the age range in the class, actually serving these in class could have been problematic, especially given that some students drove to my house for the class.

Bibliochef: If you imagined someone walking into your class – alive or dead, potential student or guest speaker, who might that be? Why?

Justin: I’d love to be able to see myself as an undergraduate student in class.  I was not the ideal student in college.  Though I did well enough, I rarely studied, I almost never took notes, and I did…some of the reading, sometimes even most of it.  (Should I be fessing up in this forum?  Oh, well.)  I wonder how difficult I’d find it to reach…well, me at that age, long before I had any serious interest in food, except that I ate a lot of it.  (I counted over 4,500 calories a day in high school.)

Bibliochef: Hmmm. Never thought of that. Wonder if I'd have been able to reach myself as a student. . .  If you could take a field trip with students anywhere in the world (and maybe any time in history) where would you go? Why?

Justin: Japan…or France…or Italy…or Mexico, Brazil, Israel, or really anywhere with a cuisine.  Come on, you’re going to make me choose?  The word “cuisine” seems to be a lost concept in this melting pot of a country we live in, though it may be making a comeback with locavore movements.  Wherever our trip took us, I wouldn’t necessarily focus on big cities, though I’d want to stop in.  It’s the regional food that’s truly rooted in tradition, and where silent chemical connections played a part in evolving diets.  We could talk about the chemistry unique to each cuisine as we ate our way through.  What a great trip that would be.

Bibliochef: Cruel to make you choose I know! So, do you eat differently – at home or in restaurants – as a result of the course? Do your students?

Justin: I think so, yes.  We did a unit on junk food.  The clerk in the checkout line saw the absolutely horrible items on the belt for that unit, and commented to my wife, “Boy, I’d like to come over to your place tonight!”  One of the items claimed to have “No high fructose corn syrup!”  But it listed corn syrup, dextrose, sucrose, glucose…and fructose.  Should be illegal.  It’s not even that fructose is necessarily that bad (glucose is the bad one); it’s just false advertising.

We still eat junk food, of course, but we try more than before to make it ourselves.  Ice cream’s great, but you should try my sour cherry vanilla or sour cherry chocolate.  Or caramel, or mocha.  We make it from scratch with cream, sugar, vanilla extract, Dutch-process cocoa powder, and fruit.  And liquid nitrogen!  It’s decadent.  And for cookies, I’ll sometimes make meringues with the egg whites left over from when my wife bakes challah.  Lemon-ginger-white chocolate meringues are spectacular, though not for everyone.  My kids prefer plain vanilla or chocolate chip.

But we’ve always cooked most of our big meals from scratch.  My wife and I were brought up that way, and we’ve always wanted the same for our kids.

As for the students…time will tell.  The class surely had an impact on them, but the bottom line was never prescriptive.  My goal was to afford them the ability to gather unbiased information, learn, and make decisions for themselves.  The “correct” answer to so many questions is “It depends…”

Bibliochef: What’s your favorite chemical reaction related to food? Would you share a related recipe?

Justin: The Maillard reaction.  It’s ubiquitous—pretty much any food that browns at high temperature that isn’t pure sugar is undergoes this reaction.  It’s the source of what Alton Brown calls “golden brown and delicious.”  You don’t need a recipe for it, just stick a piece of meat on the grill, or in a hot pan, or under the broiler for a spectacular example.  There are lots more ways to get this one going.  But let’s face it, it’s awesome. [Editor's intrusion: if you want to see what this is about from Justin's blog, click here]

The following recipe comes mostly from my mother, though for the last few years the only time we’ve done it is together, and it’s evolved slightly from what she used to do.  For steak or lamb chops, gather:

fresh peeled garlic

table salt (not kosher salt)

freshly ground pepper

olive oil (extra virgin here would be a waste of money)

(rosemary for the lamb, fresh or dried, chopped very fine)

Sorry, I don’t have measurements, just experiment a little and do it “to taste.”  In a mortar, pound the garlic and salt to a pulp (the table salt here acts as an abrasive).  Add the pepper, olive oil, and rosemary (for the lamb).  The result should be thick and viscous.  Rub the mixture liberally onto both sides of the meat, then grill over a very hot flame to medium rare.  Charcoal is best, but to be honest, I usually use a gas grill because it’s so easy.  If you don’t clean your drip pan, when its contents ignite (from dripping fat) they may provide some of the flavor you’d get from a charcoal grill.  I try to do this on purpose.  Flare-ups are good, just don’t let the meat catch fire.  Pair with a glass of your favorite red wine, and drink a toast to Louis Camille Maillard.

Bibliochef: Sounds tasty. And I never knew who the reaction was named after. Thanks. And now for some of the questions I ask all of the people I “speak” with! What’s the absolutely best meal you have ever had? What made it the best meal?

Justin: That’s easy:  Mama’s Fish House, on the Hana Highway in Maui, HI.  They generate a new menu every day based on the fish caught that day.  Each dish on the menu lists the fish, the boat that hauled it in, and the person who caught it.  When we indicated that we didn’t want to have shellfish, the waiter spoke with the chef, who suggested several substitutions that the waiter then ran by us.  My favorite dish, the appetizer involved a combination of Japanese, South American, and Hawai’ian influenced fish preparation.  Ono (Hawai’ian snapper, which translated directly means delicious, is also known as wahoo) was served in raw cubes with coconut water and citrus.  Mixed also with other fruit, it called to mind a sort of quick ceviche that was (intentionally) not allowed to develop, thus preserving the texture of the raw fish.  Cooked ono has the texture of cooked chicken, though it looks white and has a much more delicate flavor.  But this raw ono had a texture similar to that of canned jellied cranberry, with the same sort of melt-in-your-mouth feel that coats your tongue.  The accompaniments brought out the subtle, fresh flavor of the fish.  It was presented in half a raw coconut, which had flesh that was easily scooped out using the teaspoon it came with.  I paired it with a very slightly salty drink containing coconut milk, mint and lime.

I have spent the last five years looking for any fish preparation nearly as good as this one, with no success.  The sun set over the ocean as we ate.  I dream of going back to Mama’s Fish House with my wife armed only with a credit card and several hours.  Seriously.  Real dreams from which I wake up feeling content.

Bibliochef:What music, films, books related to food and/or distilled products would you recommend? Why?

Justin:  I’ll stick with a classic (and one I mentioned before):  On Food and Cooking, by Harold McGee.  He’s a journalist with a literature degree, yet he gets things right that even the scientists seem to miss.  The chemistry is impeccably detailed and correct, yet still somehow accessible.  For the other items, I don’t like making recommendations:  de gustibus non est disputandum.

Bibliochef: What do you eat for comfort food?

Justin: Whatever it is, it’s usually a lot.  To me, that’s comforting.

Bibliochef: Do you have a favorite restaurant in the Finger Lakes?

Justin: Corny, perhaps, but nothing beats Julianne’s (my wife's) cooking.  Our food is not gourmet, it’s homey.  But we’ve fed students, job candidates, and of course family, and these meals are the best.  Maybe that’s partly the atmosphere at home, but it’s also because we know how we like our food.  I know that Julianne likes her hollandaise really lemony.  And she knows just how to add blue cheese to a recipe, even though she doesn’t like it.  For what it’s worth, our meals are best when one of our friends who knows wine brings some—we sometimes dine with scientists who specialize in grapes.  Our friends have exquisite taste.

But if you’re looking for a restaurant, try Rio Tomatlan in Canandaigua.  Best Mexican food around, the flautas with tomatillo salsa are excellent.  Aside from the mole, which is way too sweet, everything we’ve had there has been wonderful.

Bibliochef: What am I not asking that I should? What question have you never been asked that you have always wanted to be asked? What's your answer?  

Justin: Here are a few:

                  Q:  “What’s it like trying to teach a food chemistry course in a kosher kitchen?”

                  A:  As long as you’re ok with avoiding certain ingredients, it’s not that big of a deal.  I can’t  think of any broad concepts that absolutely must be taught using non-kosher ingredients. Let’s just say that we didn’t butter the steak, or braise it in milk.

 

                  Q:  “What’s it like to have over a dozen students storm your kitchen once a week for a         semester?”

                  A:  It’s tough on my family, though it’s nice for students to see them and even get to know   them.  The house, and particularly the kitchen, needed to be cleaned before each class, and then after the class left we had to clean up immediately in order to make dinner for the kids.  But it was great to have a nice three-hour food experience once a week in my own home.  I’d say something like, “I’d gladly do it again,” but I’ve already committed to it this coming spring semester, 2012.  I am looking forward to it.

Bibliochef: Thanks so much for doing this. I learned a lot and really enjoyed this. I know readers will as well. And I look forward to the next group of students' work on the blog! Tell them to drop by here and leave their comments too!